Do you include Financial Dept and/or Accounting Dept. to the qual. managment system?



Most of the organization here does not include Financial Department and/or Accounting Department to the quality management system.

Do you agree to this idea? What is your idea in implement the system this way?

They are absolutley a part of it.

After all, they are part of the business and our processes, and the only reason for running a business is to make money, right?

They most definitely have an impact on the QMS. Budgets and funding does tend to affect the business...

You'll always find people saying: -That's got nothing to do with us. I say that as long as the company is paying their wages, that is bull...


Geoff Cotton

Quite Involved in Discussions
Finance are now part of our new QMS as they impact on customers / suppliers and every part of our process. (They have hidden behind those balance sheets for too long.)

Our IT department have also now been included.


Show Me the $$$$, again

95% of my Mgmt Review Performance Indicators are based solely on the Financials (the other 5% are based on $ but not as black and white as the Financials). My thoughts for this are simple. If you are not getting a Financial Return from your System, then the System is not effective. You need quantitative data to measure it and Goals and Objectives to stimulate improvement. Internal and external indicators are directly proportional. For instance, if my internal scrap drops over time, the Credit Memo $ issued for defective field product drops as well. When Rates and Efficiencies fall by the wayside, look out---something is amiss—we must be creating waste. I could go on and on but the moral of the story is this: Lip service and qualitative opinions are ok in getting the thought process going, but only when you measure it, can you manage it. And at the end of the day, only one indicator reigns supreme to the livelihood of you and the organization: the P & L statement. If you’re not meeting company Goals and Objectives that will drive costs out of the operation, you’re just doing a bunch of busy work that is not adding value. Just my humble opinion.................:cool:


Quote from 1.2 Application, ISO 9001:2000

I quoted this from 1.2, ISO 9001:2000 to help this discussion.

All requirements of this International Standard are generic and are intended to be applicable to all organizations, regards of type, size and product provided.

Where any requirement(s) of this International Standard cannot be applied due to the nature of an organization and its product, this can be considered for exclusion.

Where the exclusion are made, claims of conformity to this International Standard are not acceptable unless these exclusions are limited to requirements withing clause 7, and such exclusions do not affect the organization's ability, or responsibility, to provide product that meets customer and applicable regulatory requirements.

Are the A/C Department and Finance Department effect to the product?
What requirements will deal with A/C Department and Financial Department?
Is the two departments in clause 7?


Fully vaccinated are you?
How many of you who have gone through registration had their finance department audited?


Great question?

Marc said:

How many of you who have gone through registration had their finance department audited?

Nothing like cutting to the chase. This should get interesting as Registrars are not in the Financial Auditing Business. We also have a thread where there was plenty of opinions regarding this. I'll post it.;) :ko: :smokin:


Hey Hey, I was posting.

Jim Wade said:

Thanks Geoff.

Your sort of rationale (that we include processes and departments in our system because it simply makes good business sense) appeals to me much much more than worrying about whether or not the auditors will want it or like it.

rgds Jim

I'm not too proud of this thread suggested below for varying opinions regarding HR, Marketing and Finance. Things haven't changed, Much?? :vfunny:

Makes good business sense? To you! Just grab your ankles and Present Arms!:ko: :smokin:

Mike S.

Happy to be Alive
Trusted Information Resource
I looked at this question from a little different viewpoint. IMHO, any good QMS must cover areas of the company which affect the performance of the company’s products and/or services as they relate to customer satisfaction. As I see it, even for a manufacturer finance/accounting at the very least is involved in the company’s billing/accounts payable and receivable functions. If these functions are not performed correctly there will be customer dissatisfaction as a result. (Imagine getting double billed, or receiving invoices with the wrong price, wrong quantity, or receiving past-due notices for invoices which are not yet due). Therefore, as I see it, Finance must to some degree be included in the QMS as the quality of their work (or lack thereof) can directly affect customer satisfaction.

It might be argued that finance has indirect effect on customer satisfaction because (as one example) they handle payroll, and if the employees aren’t getting paid correctly or on time this might result in different kinds of customer satisfaction problems. This is more of a ambiguous claim to me.

However, I do not think it is a requirement for every function of the Finance department to be covered by the QMS. For example, maybe Finance is responsible for sending a report on EBITDA to the corporate HQ on the first of every month. If it doesn’t get done until the third, or if there are no written procedures for this and it gets goofed up from time to time, it doesn’t necessarily require handling through the QMS CAR procedures, for example. It could be if the company wants to, but it is not required IMHO.

Am I missing something (again)?:confused: :bonk:


Stretching for third?

All contested invoices are 99% of the time the fault of Sales for quoting one thing and shipping another. Credit issues involve assigning an RGA Number and Sales not following up with the Customer. Sales doesn't apply the correct mutilpier so that the Customer get his/her discounted price. Finance relies solely on input from Sales and Shipping (Freight). They call for payment and answer bill collectors. That part of our business and the strategy employed to gather payment due you and the length of time you retain that capital to realize the most gain for your dollar, are nobody's business but the owners, via the Finance Department. But that's us. As a result of that long contentious thread I posted before, when we interviewed a couple Registrars, I specifically asked if marketing and finance are in the scope of their audits. Even though I now have a reason for Marketing being included for the accuracy of their published materials, they both said "NO". Get it yet? You can dream up any scenario you choose. :vfunny:
:ko: :smokin:
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