Document Control and Distribution - How to save paper?

[qsmso]

Control and distribution of document; we waste so much for paper

Dear Cove friends,
I have confused within the company about controlling and distributing QMS controlled document. We control document by Intranet. All items with current version can be accessed any time by anybody (read only).
There are about 40 functions (sections) in our organizations that are required to use document differently. In normal practice, each of those print out concerned document and keep as master file in each area. That means we are talking about 40 binders at least.

1. However, do we have to print out or make copy to keep in our office or post at shop floor? ( I think we waste a lot of paper)
2. Do all document must be kept in the master file of each section?
3. Can we just only make the list for only document we concerned, then when need we can check from the Intranet or print out to use?
4. If we can do according to question no.3, how to satisfy QS-9000 req. 4.5.2 a “the pertinent issues of appropriate documents are available at all location where operations essential to the effective functioning of the quality system are performed?

Need your suggestion.

Regards,
QSMSO

 

[Claes Gefvenberg]

Re: Control and distribution of document; we waste so much for paper

Hi there,

1. No. Don't. At least not as long as those who need the documents can access them from the intranet. Are the printed documents controlled? Probably not..?

2. No. Why not consider the intranet to be the master list? In effect it is. A different master list in every section is trouble.

3. Yes (If I understood the question right). Just make certan that you don't save any printed documents after use.

4. I'll leave that one to the QS-9000 experts, but if you have intranet access close to those locations, you shouldn't have any problems.

/Claes

 

[Graeme]

Here is what I have done in an ISO 9001:2000 implementation in a small electronic calibration lab. We wanted to take maximum advantage of the internal computer network, and minimize the workload of the document coordinator (me). Referring to the original questions --

1. However, do we have to print out or make copy to keep in our office or post at shop floor?

If the documents are on the company intranet, and if everyone has access to them, then the answer is probably No.

2. Do all document must be kept in the master file of each section?

The directory (web page) that people use to get to them on the intranet is the master file. Having separate files in different sections is just making trouble for yourself.
Axiom: no matter how much you try to prevent it the lists will become unsynchronized.
Corollary: the auditor will find it.

3. Can we just only make the list for only document we concerned, then when need we can check from the Intranet or print out to use?

We do allow people to print documents as needed. It is necessary in some cases, such as calibration checklists. But every level 2 and 3 quality procedure, and the quality manual, has a note in the footer of every page stating that if it is printed, it is not a controlled document. The only controlled copy is the one they can see on the computer screen. Paper copies are supposed to be disposed of after use. (Unless it is a form which becomes a record, then it is scanned back in before it is disposed of.)

4. If we can do according to question no.3, how to satisfy QS-9000 req. 4.5.2 a “the pertinent issues of appropriate documents are available at all location where operations essential to the effective functioning of the quality system are performed?

Again, if the documents are available on the intranet the only issue is having them available at the point of use. If everyone has access to the intranet in their work area, it should not be a problem. In our calibration lab, each technician has a laptop computer, and each calibration workstation has a network connection, so it is not an issue for us. It may be different in your situation.


Other points:

The only copy accessible to the users is the current one. If they have a need to see an old version they have to ask the document coordinator. In addition, the current version cannot be changed because (a) most users only have read access to that directory, and (b) all of the documents are digitally signed Adobe Acrobat PDF files.

The document access system is a series of html web pages that links everything together. I am also starting to put hyperlinks inside documents for additional linking.

This system also makes it easy for the auditor. We just give him or her a laptop and the account name and password we have set up for auditors, and let them roam. (The auditor account has rights to see everything but not modify anything.)

Document changes are handled by e-mail -- requests, approvals, and change notices. That provides an electronic trail that can be stored as needed. The change is official when a new copy of the file is placed in the folder on the server.

(A side benefit is that the lab stays cleaner longer now that there is less paper in it.)

 

[Bob_M]

Document changes are handled by e-mail -- requests, approvals, and change notices. That provides an electronic trail that can be stored as needed. The change is official when a new copy of the file is placed in the folder on the server.

Your program sounds GREAT!!!!
The PDF is something I'd like our company to use soon.
How do you electronically approve your documents?
We currently have one electronic master, with a few paper binders.
But our conversion to and "offical" online version is so new we have not worked out a system for approving them yet.

Any tips?

 

[energy]

here's what we do

Bob_M said:

Your program sounds GREAT!!!!
The PDF is something I'd like our company to use soon.
How do you electronically approve your documents?
We currently have one electronic master, with a few paper binders.
But our conversion to and "offical" online version is so new we have not worked out a system for approving them yet.

Any tips?

Original hard copies are signed and dated and kept in a Master File in the QA Office. The pdf files show the personnel "Author" and "Authorizer" and the date. Where the signature would normally be, I just have this: (Signed). Our Document Control Procedure states this and I see nothing wrong with it. Also, there are "Uncontrolled" stamps near three printers and the procedure states that printed documents are no longer controlled. A throw back to to the 94 version of ISO, but so what? We have not been audited yet by a Registrar, however I don't anticipate a problem. The important thing is to make sure the procedure addresses everything you do. JMHO

 

[Mike S.]

Bob,

FWIW, I think either Jim's way or Energy's way will pass most audits. I use Energy's way despite it being a bit more work because I think it is a bit more "airtight" -- the handwritten signature on a hardcopy shows more positively that the doc actually WAS approved by that person. This seems to make auditors feel warmer and fuzzier and eliminates any chance of the approving person later saying "I never saw/approved that document" and having anyone take him/her seriously. But if you do not have those concerns and prefer the greatest ease, Jim's way should work. If it doesn't, you can always change.

 

[energy]

Exactly

Jim Wade said:

What some people do, Bob is to have a procedure for approval that results - for a successful review - in the master document simply being moved to a folder with appropriate protections

That way they can say "we know it's approved because it's in that folder". The document (uniquely identified by, for example, a title and a date) needs no e-signature or any other sign of approval.

rgds Jim

We say, basically, if it's on the "secured drive", it's the latest rev. The "master List" is there also, which contains the hyperlinked documents. This is no fun. Let's rumble!!

 

[energy]

Warm and Fuzzy

Mike S. said:

Bob,

FWIW, I think either Jim's way or Energy's way will pass most audits. I use Energy's way despite it being a bit more work because I think it is a bit more "airtight" -- the handwritten signature on a hardcopy shows more positively that the doc actually WAS approved by that person. This seems to make auditors feel warmer and fuzzier and eliminates any chance of the approving person later saying "I never saw/approved that document" and having anyone take him/her seriously. But if you do not have those concerns and prefer the greatest ease, Jim's way should work. If it doesn't, you can always change.

Mike S.

We also have a concern here about electronic approval signatures on blueprints by Engineering. It's not allowed because they do not have that "warm and fuzzy feeling". Some things are best left alone if we feel "cold and bald".

 

[Mike S.]

I know what hyperlinks are, but I'm not sure how to use them effectively. I might want to in the future. I use MS WORD for my docs. Maybe someone can enlighten me. Consider this scenerio:

I have a doc called "QSP-530 Rev. A - Testing Whozits". In this doc is a reference to "QSP-515 Rev. B - Hardness Testing", which is a part of how whozits are tested.

If I revise QSP-515 to Rev. C, don't I have to go back to QSP-530 (and any other docs that reference QSP-515) and change the hyperlink in QSP-530 so that the new rev of QSP-515 is called by the hyperlink?

I figure there is probably a way around this, but I've never sat down to figure it all out. Any ideas from the hyperlink experts?

 

[SteelMaiden]

Mike S. said:

I know what hyperlinks are, but I'm not sure how to use them effectively. I might want to in the future. I use MS WORD for my docs. Maybe someone can enlighten me. Consider this scenerio:

I have a doc called "QSP-530 Rev. A - Testing Whozits". In this doc is a reference to "QSP-515 Rev. B - Hardness Testing", which is a part of how whozits are tested.

If I revise QSP-515 to Rev. C, don't I have to go back to QSP-530 (and any other docs that reference QSP-515) and change the hyperlink in QSP-530 so that the new rev of QSP-515 is called by the hyperlink?

I figure there is probably a way around this, but I've never sat down to figure it all out. Any ideas from the hyperlink experts?

As long as you always name the "current" doc the same file name, you don't have to worry about the hyperlinks. So, if you are saving obsolete copies somewhere, rename them. Current document is H:\QMSWeb\QSP515.doc, but maybe the old one(s) is H:\QMSWeb\QSP515B.doc and QSP515A.doc

Actually, I don't even save old versions, unless there is some really good reason to. I have the changes summarized in the revision database. If I do save an older version, I keep it in an entirely different drive or a different folder on the same drive, one that is not accessible by anyone other than a couple of people with administrative rights.

Hope this helps!