Document Control Newbie - Control of Nonconforming / Returns Log

Jcornett344

Starting to get Involved
#1
Okay, so.

This is probably a question some of you may laugh or scoff at.
However I simply do not have the answer nor do I know anyone with the answer.

In regards to revision control, I want to know how often it is necessary to update revision number if you are simply adding information to a log.

Specifically, I am referring to our Nonconforming / Returns Log. Purely a list of past customer returns, to which gets added to every time we file one. Simply lists the Non-Con number, customer, date, and disposition.

Even though the format remains the same, must I update the revision status?

i.e. our first revision is Rev. 0, then Rev. 1, then Rev. 2 etc.

So if i add the latest nonconformity to the log, must i up the Rev. from Rev. 7 to Rev. 8? Or will the revision remain the same?

I know this is probably a goofy ass question. Just help a newb trying to be successful.
 
Last edited:
Elsmar Forum Sponsor

Ninja

Looking for Reality
Trusted Information Resource
#3
You log is your log. It is a living document...no rev control.

Trying to rev a living document every time it 'breathes' is a great way to start hating your QMS...don't go there.

FWIW, I would suggest keeping that log in XL...its just easier...
 

Coury Ferguson

Moderator here to help
Staff member
Super Moderator
#4
Okay, so.

This is probably a question some of you may laugh or scoff at.
However I simply do not have the answer nor do I know anyone with the answer.

In regards to revision control, I want to know how often it is necessary to update revision number if you are simply adding information to a log.

Specifically, I am referring to our Nonconforming / Returns Log. Purely a list of past customer returns, to which gets added to every time we file one. Simply lists the Non-Con number, customer, date, and disposition.

Even though the format remains the same, must I update the revision status?

i.e. our first revision is Rev. 0, then Rev. 1, then Rev. 2 etc.

So if i add the latest nonconformity to the log, must i up the Rev. from Rev. 7 to Rev. 8? Or will the revision remain the same?

I know this is probably a goofy ass question. Just help a newb trying to be successful.
I agree with everyone that it is a living document (at least the data) and doesn't need a revision. However, if you change the input format, or form format, you would need to change the revision level in my opinion.

Rule of thumb from my point of view:

Anytime the format, form information required to complete, is modified or changed, change the revision level and maintain the obsoleted form (with previous data) in a separate folder identifying it as obsolete forms and/or procedure.

Just my take on it
 

Ron Rompen

Trusted Information Resource
#5
Just to echo what everyone else has said, you do NOT need to change the revision of the document when you record information in it. You change the rev level when you change the format of the document, the method of inputting data, or something that affects the document structure.

And it definitely was NOT a stupid question - at least you are smart enough to realize you don't have all the answers, and aren't afraid to ask for input from others.:agree1::applause::cool::notme:
 

QAengineer13

Quite Involved in Discussions
#6
I am in agreement with everyone that the revision does not need to be up rev'ed but I believe that Log is a forma of a record which captured data as a snapshot of time which needs to follow the document control procedure of your QMS for records (i.e) who review/approve the log, what interval.
 
Q

QAMTY

#8
Regarding to QAengineer13 comment:

The opinion of most of the users, is that is a live document and is not needed
to change the revision.

But I question, really the info contained in the format is by far more important then the
format which needs control, maybe is data of production in a big manufacturing company, who, how and when such important info was captured and how to trust in that if is not controlled at all?
could someone clarify this point?

Thanks
 

Mark Meer

Trusted Information Resource
#9
But I question, really the info contained in the format is by far more important then the format which needs control, maybe is data of production in a big manufacturing company, who, how and when such important info was captured and how to trust in that if is not controlled at all?
could someone clarify this point?
I think, in such cases, "control" is usually established by restricting access somehow.

In the case of smaller organizations, or exclusive responsibilities, this could be as simple as the responsible party being the owner of the document (maybe it's maintained locally on their computer, or paper records filed by them), and hence (in principle) the only persons who can access/update.

Another possibility is ensuring training on who has authority to update, and perhaps including an initial/date field as a confirmation of who does the specific updates.

And yet another option (which is working well for us) is to adopt a software solution that automatically maintains a revision history (logging who does updates and when). For example a wiki. Such systems also allow control of access by user/account permissions...

These are just a few possibilities...
MM
 
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