Document Numbering System For ISO/Quality Management Document vs. All Other Documents

TPMB4

Quite Involved in Discussions
#11
Re: Document Numbering System For ISO/Quality Management Document vs. All Other Docum

You're right of course but the suggestions I read had no revision number in their id. I would not use a numbering system personally preferring id to come from the title. Whilst not a shall is there any reason why you can't combine revision number with a history of revisions? Does it have any problems? I'll stop doing it if there is.
 

MichelleN

Involved In Discussions
#12
Re: Document Numbering System For ISO/Quality Management Document vs. All Other Docum

My opinion is that a numbering system (a very simple one) e.g PR-01, QM-01, WI-01 etc would be better than using titles (e.g. Calibration procedure or Management Responsibility procedure or whatever) because it will save you time (believe me!!!) when you reference them in other documents, like other procedures or gap analyses or all kind of quality plans...
 

Randy

Quite Involved in Discussions
Trusted
#13
Re: Document Numbering System For ISO/Quality Management Document vs. All Other Docum

You're right of course but the suggestions I read had no revision number in their id. I would not use a numbering system personally preferring id to come from the title. Whilst not a shall is there any reason why you can't combine revision number with a history of revisions? Does it have any problems? I'll stop doing it if there is.
:sarcasm:...and while we're at it break it down even further by page count, paper color and day of week

Every little thing that becomes required just increases the possibility of it not being met...
 

alonFAI

Involved In Discussions
#14
Re: Document Numbering System For ISO/Quality Management Document vs. All Other Docum

Hi guys

thanks for the answers it helped!!!:agree1::applause::agree:

I think i will go with your advice and keep it simple as possible but
the number will start with the project name whice the set of documents belong too.

for example project "moon": moon-frm-001

meaning form number 001 belong to project "moon".

what do you think?

and also if i may, I have a nother question. You think the document/record control procedure should also relate or contain a "document change procedure"? or should they be seperate procedures? or maybe document change procedures should be somehow combined with ECO procedure?
 

Randy

Quite Involved in Discussions
Trusted
#15
Re: Document Numbering System For ISO/Quality Management Document vs. All Other Docum

Hi guys

thanks for the answers it helped!!!:agree1::applause::agree:

I think i will go with your advice and keep it simple as possible but
the number will start with the project name whice the set of documents belong too.

for example project "moon": moon-frm-001

meaning form number 001 belong to project "moon".

what do you think?

and also if i may, I have a nother question. You think the document/record control procedure should also relate or contain a "document change procedure"? or should they be seperate procedures? or maybe document change procedures should be somehow combined with ECO procedure?
Doesn't matter what we think, all that matters is:
1) whether or not it works for you
2) it meets requirements
3) is effective
4) is controlled
 

Sidney Vianna

Post Responsibly
Staff member
Super Moderator
#16
Re: Document Numbering System For ISO/Quality Management Document vs. All Other Docum

Lack of effective document control is probably the #1 nonconformity identified across the globe, followed by Records, and not meeting one's own procedures. And most of the doc control problems are a result of...Guess what? Yep, all the self required need for numbers and stuff not lining up with practice.
In my experience, the reason for "document control" being one of the primary sources of nonconformity has less to do with the organization's self inflicted requirements and more to do with the fact that document control is one of the easiest aspects of a qms, in terms of ease of auditability and the shear number of opportunities for problems.

Auditors "like" to audit document control because it is "very easy" and there is less subjectivity at play. It is so easy to determine if someone was using an incorrect version of a document.

I have seen a number of statistics on 3[sup]rd[/sup] party audit nonconformities and, in my opinion, those statistics are more influenced by the auditor's ability than the actual system being audited.
 

Randy

Quite Involved in Discussions
Trusted
#17
Re: Document Numbering System For ISO/Quality Management Document vs. All Other Docum

In my experience, the reason for "document control" being one of the primary sources of nonconformity has less to do with the organization's self inflicted requirements and more to do with the fact that document control is one of the easiest aspects of a qms, in terms of ease of auditability and the shear number of opportunities for problems.

Auditors "like" to audit document control because it is "very easy" and there is less subjectivity at play. It is so easy to determine if someone was using an incorrect version of a document.

I have seen a number of statistics on 3[sup]rd[/sup] party audit nonconformities and, in my opinion, those statistics are more influenced by the auditor's ability than the actual system being audited.
I never audit document control as a stand alone, it's always part of everything I look at, as is records... But in this I could also be wrong as usual:sarcasm:
 

insect warfare

QA=Question Authority
#18
Re: Document Numbering System For ISO/Quality Management Document vs. All Other Docum

You think the document/record control procedure should also relate or contain a "document change procedure"? or should they be seperate procedures? or maybe document change procedures should be somehow combined with ECO procedure?
Randy has given good advice as always. You can have one document describing all of this, or ten documents describing 2,3,4,5...different aspects of this process. The most important factors are compliance and effectivity. You have more wiggle room than you might think....

Brian :rolleyes:
 

Sidney Vianna

Post Responsibly
Staff member
Super Moderator
#19
Re: Document Numbering System For ISO/Quality Management Document vs. All Other Docum

I never audit document control as a stand alone, it's always part of everything I look at, as is records...
Irrespective of how one goes about auditing command media as process input, you had mentioned that document control is the number 1 failure mode of audits, and, on that count, you are probably correct. I stand by my previous comments on WHY is that so.
 

Randy

Quite Involved in Discussions
Trusted
#20
Re: Document Numbering System For ISO/Quality Management Document vs. All Other Docum

Irrespective of how one goes about auditing command media as process input, you had mentioned that document control is the number 1 failure mode of audits, and, on that count, you are probably correct. I stand by my previous comments on WHY is that so.
In that respct I'm in full agreement, I see doc control in plans made by others (and sometimes on the last day after lunch...figure that)....lazy lazy lazy
 

Top