Document Numbers (Identification) on Forms (AS9100)

S

SpaceCase

#1
So the package we bought indicates that all of our forms will be labeled according to the corresponding clause in the standard.
731 is Key Characteristics so our Work Order and Traveler are F-731-001 and F-731-002 respectively because the key characteristics are called out on those forms. (i.e. material type, length, width, height, cleaning spec and level, test pressures, etc...)
We are having a problem figuring out how to label the rest of our forms
(Certifications)...
Cold Shock Report
NVR Analysis
Bubble Point Cert
Particulate Count Cert
Cleaning Cert
Calibration Cert
Tube Bending & Flaring Cert
Hydrostat Cert
Hydraulic Cert

If you can offer any advice in any way, we would greatly appreciate it! :thanx:
 
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Michael_M

Trusted Information Resource
#2
Re: Question about Form numbering

We use the same basic process, naming our forms on the standard clause they most refer to. However, we have several forms that are for the same basic clause so we add a number at the end, for example:

L-7.6 1 Personal Tool Calibration record.
L-7.6 2 Company Tool Calibration record.

L-7.6 References the standards clause 7.6, 1 or 2 following are saying "form 1 or form 2".
 
#4
Re: Question about Form numbering

Space Case: Tell the software company you don't want to link your documents to clauses of the standard and want them to remove it, at their cost, since it's NOT an ISO requirement to do this and you've encountered a problem - what IS a cert? Document? Record? It's not a procedure, or work instruction...

They have made this too complex for your own good...
 

insect warfare

QA=Question Authority
Trusted Information Resource
#6
Re: Question about Form numbering

So the package we bought indicates that all of our forms will be labeled according to the corresponding clause in the standard.
731 is Key Characteristics so our Work Order and Traveler are F-731-001 and F-731-002 respectively because the key characteristics are called out on those forms. (i.e. material type, length, width, height, cleaning spec and level, test pressures, etc...)
We are having a problem figuring out how to label the rest of our forms
(Certifications)...
Cold Shock Report
NVR Analysis
Bubble Point Cert
Particulate Count Cert
Cleaning Cert
Calibration Cert
Tube Bending & Flaring Cert
Hydrostat Cert
Hydraulic Cert

If you can offer any advice in any way, we would greatly appreciate it! :thanx:
I would like to play devil's advocate here by bringing up a few counter-points....

1) What if the clause numbers change due to an update in the AS9100 standard? Will your numbering system still be able to align with the new clause structure? This is not really new territory, largely in part because of the Annex SL global harmonization structure that is currently being incorporated (which I'm not sure if this standard has been upgraded to yet), but nonetheless even routine updates to any standard always carries with it the potential to structurally change clauses and to create an undesirable situation for your organization.

2) What if your organization decides to adopt more than one standard (i.e. an integrated management system, or IMS)? My organization currently employs an IMS, and using multiple numbering systems from multiple standards would result in so much unnecessary duplication of documents, therefore it is imperative that we utilize an alternative system that is unique to us, and is also effective in discouraging such redundancy from occurring.

3) What if you don't even need a numbering system? If you are a mom-and-pop shop and your system is not that complex to begin with, why bother with a numbering system at all? No need for a complex solution to a simple problem, a lot of us would say. In the end, it really comes down to what methods would reduce the most friction to your company's efficiency or bottom line, right?

Just some things to think about....

Brian :rolleyes:
 
#7
Re: Question about Form numbering

I have my forms to AS9100, I am not worried about ISO9001****


**** Caveat, YET
But why even set it up to HAVE to change? The actual users of the document don't need to know anything about clauses of the standard, and, frankly, such numbering systems go to confirm their darkest fears - that "doing ISO" is a bureaucracy. All it LOOKS like, is making work for someone to justify "doing ISO"...
 

Michael_M

Trusted Information Resource
#8
Re: Question about Form numbering

But why even set it up to HAVE to change? The actual users of the document don't need to know anything about clauses of the standard, and, frankly, such numbering systems go to confirm their darkest fears - that "doing ISO" is a bureaucracy. All it LOOKS like, is making work for someone to justify "doing ISO"...
Honest answer: this was the numbering system that was in place when I got tasked with getting the AS9100 qualification (stage 2 was at the end of November) from an ISO (semi) compliant system (no certification). If I was to completely rewrite, renumber, and reorganize everything, I would have created the mass bureaucracy (and missed something somewhere). The form number is for document control. If the standard changes, what matter if the calibration record (document) is 7.6 1 or 10001 so long as the I have control and know what revision I am using.

I know I am still new to having an actual 'standard' to follow, but it kinda sounds like you are forcing your requirements of document control on others. I was answering the original posters question on 'how to'. I know I can use any numbering system and for the most part those who use the forms only worry about the revision level. The document (form) is clearly labeled on the top, for example "Personal Tool Calibration". The bottom of the form has L-7.6 1.

In 15 years the form number can still be L-7.6 1 as that would just be a unique identifier.
 
#9
Re: A Question on Document number for the Forms

I'm not forcing any requirements, Michael, simply pointing out - mainly for those who come, read and go away without an alternative example - that the use of these type of numbering systems are, for the most part, entirely unnecessary! As I've been at pains to point out previously, people recognize documents from formats, titles, contents - not ISO cross referenced numbering systems.
 

Jen Kirley

Quality and Auditing Expert
Staff member
Admin
#10
Re: A Question on Document number for the Forms

So the package we bought indicates that all of our forms will be labeled according to the corresponding clause in the standard.
731 is Key Characteristics so our Work Order and Traveler are F-731-001 and F-731-002 respectively because the key characteristics are called out on those forms. (i.e. material type, length, width, height, cleaning spec and level, test pressures, etc...)
We are having a problem figuring out how to label the rest of our forms
(Certifications)...
Cold Shock Report
NVR Analysis
Bubble Point Cert
Particulate Count Cert
Cleaning Cert
Calibration Cert
Tube Bending & Flaring Cert
Hydrostat Cert
Hydraulic Cert

If you can offer any advice in any way, we would greatly appreciate it! :thanx:
Yuck. Can you get your money back? Or, can you over-write that numbering format in favor of something your organization is more comfortable with?

If not, I suppose the forms can be included under their element group:

procedure in 7.5 group and inspection/test in 8.1 or 8.2 group.

If it's possible, I would lump them in a small element number, for example 7.0 or 8.0.
 
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