Document Review Frequency

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RoxaneB

Super Moderator
Super Moderator
#12
Wes Bucey said:
Is this obsession with coffee making an example of caffein nerves?:lmao:
Nah...just using an example of an activity that most of us can relate to. Just like in my training session on Routine Management when I talk about "What do you do to ensure you get to work on time?" All of us try to do that. :eek:
 

Wes Bucey

Quite Involved in Discussions
#13
RCBeyette said:
Nah...just using an example of an activity that most of us can relate to. Just like in my training session on Routine Management when I talk about "What do you do to ensure you get to work on time?" All of us try to do that. :eek:
Not I. I haven't punched a time clock in forty years. I also haven't had a position with defined hours during those forty years. At my last company, the shortest route between home and work was 17 miles. The company before that, 32 miles. Unless I had a defined appointment, I usually gave myself a two-hour window in which to arrive (usually between 8 and 10 am.) Sometimes I played nine holes of golf. Sometimes I used to detour to a customer or supplier just to "nose around" - I made sure to bring plenty of donuts or cookies to go with their coffee. They never thought of it as an audit, but I found it made life much more simple if they had a face to go with the name when I made a phone call if there was a glitch. Those "coffee dates" were often excellent problem-solving seminars for them and for me. For them and for me, it was an excellent way to reinforce the "partnership" aspect of our business relationship. Similarly, we invited them to "drop in" any time and "hold court" in our break room for any reason at all. Our treasurer and his staff once helped a supplier prepare all the paperwork for an SBA loan to expand his plant after the guy casually commented how difficult it all was for him. The company that calibrated and certified our gages and other instruments had an employee who lived about 10 minutes from our shop. We got free pick up and delivery service plus impromptu training sessions on care and interim calibration - he got free coffee and rolls plus an exclusive customer.

Re: REVIEW notice/documentation
the formality or informality you use in marking a document as reviewed is strictly contingent on your organization's need and the nature of the document or record, itself.

To be clear, we are only talking about documents and records in a "controlled" system. I have seen everything from rubber stamps with date ("reviewed 8/8/2004 by _______[initials]___") to "tickler files" listing the documents with columns for date and reviewer and notation whether to leave as is, modify, or discard.

Some organizations use a document numbering system which incorporates the date for easy retrieval of documents to be reviewed on a chronological basis. Some review documents on a department by department basis.
("All engineering documents are reviewed annually to determine whether to retain, modify, or scrap.")
or
("All shipping records are reviewed every three years to determine whether to retain or scrap.") [you don't modify RECORDS]
 
Last edited:

Douglas E. Purdy

Quite Involved in Discussions
#14
No Re-Approved Dates on Document -Then!

RCBeyette said:
Hmmm...let's try a little story about the life cycle of a document...at least up to, and including, the whole review process. I'll not discuss the process for rendering a document obsolete.

I hit the "Document Review" button and, in the electronic history section of the Document, a new line is entered saying that on September 30 (because I decided to take a few days to get input from a few people) the review was done. No changes made to the document.

All is good. We're still on Revision 1.
The End
RCBeyette,

Thanks for the little story! I take it that you do not indicate a Re-Approved Date on the Document and that your document control program is your evidence of the annual reviews / re-approvals.

I was contemplating the establishment of a Re-Approval Window (say 3 years) where if the document had not been changed in 3 years that a Re-Approved Date would be added to the Revision or Issue Date. Would that be an acceptable addendum to a life cycle of a document?

Doug
 

RoxaneB

Super Moderator
Super Moderator
#15
Douglas E. Purdy said:
RCBeyette,

Thanks for the little story! I take it that you do not indicate a Re-Approved Date on the Document and that your document control program is your evidence of the annual reviews / re-approvals.

I was contemplating the establishment of a Re-Approval Window (say 3 years) where if the document had not been changed in 3 years that a Re-Approved Date would be added to the Revision or Issue Date. Would that be an acceptable addendum to a life cycle of a document?

Doug
What is the difference between a Document Review (what my company does) and a Re-Approval (what you are proposing)?

When our Document Authors do a Review, they read over the document and verify that it matches the process being practiced. If there is no change, no re-approval is necessary.

If there has been a change, they put the document into modification and it must be submitted for approval in order be released back out for use.

The Document Re-Approval processes sounds very similar to a Review process with an extra step for the Approvers. Do they need to be involved?

If this Document Re-Approval is to take the place of a Review, 3 years does sound like a really big window to me - I'd question its effectiveness. But it's not my system...it's yours...make you implement something that will benefit the system. :)
 
J

Joe Cruse

#16
We also do document review similar to RCBeyette, and do not put a new revision # or date on the doc unless there has been an actual revision. Nothing noted for the review, as that is captured elsewhere. Having to note/update the review date on the actual document would be a nightmare for most folks systems, as it means a lot of printing if you have several hard copies out there. Seems a waste of time.

We do a similar review for our MSDS system now. Unfortunately (for paperwork reasons), review date has to be updated on these, or some regulatory folks get a little antsy. We've run into this issue with Canadian customers in the last few years. So we review them, make a change on the revision date, and re-issue them, even though NOTHING has changed in the actual MSDS itself. Fortunately, we don't have that big a list of MSDS'.
 

Wes Bucey

Quite Involved in Discussions
#17
Joe Cruse said:
We also do document review similar to RCBeyette, and do not put a new revision # or date on the doc unless there has been an actual revision. Nothing noted for the review, as that is captured elsewhere. Having to note/update the review date on the actual document would be a nightmare for most folks systems, as it means a lot of printing if you have several hard copies out there. Seems a waste of time.

We do a similar review for our MSDS system now. Unfortunately (for paperwork reasons), review date has to be updated on these, or some regulatory folks get a little antsy. We've run into this issue with Canadian customers in the last few years. So we review them, make a change on the revision date, and re-issue them, even though NOTHING has changed in the actual MSDS itself. Fortunately, we don't have that big a list of MSDS'.
Now that you mention this, I DO recollect seeing some documents with a "boilerplate" stamp with the date and comment to the effect "Reviewed for sufficiency [date] - no change ordered" along with a signature of a responsible party.

My memory is not quite clear, but these may have been government documents with the notation on the revision history page or on blueprints of old line products.

I see nothing wrong with doing this kind of notation as a record the document was, in fact, reviewed and determined that no modification or destruction was required.
 

Mike S.

Happy to be Alive
Trusted Information Resource
#18
ISO does not say how often a review needs to be done. The standard says "...review and update as necessary..." Who determines when it is necessary? IMO, you do, not the registrar or auditor or consultant. IMO if you can show you do revisions on some docs, and you have no problems from the use of obsolete docs, there should be no complaint that you do not meet the standard even if you don't do a review of all docs on some fixed, artificial timetable. You could say the doc is reviewed by the user at each use and the doc. author, responsible engineer, process manager, etc. reviews the applicable docs whenever a process change is made, and that is all that "is necessary". This might not work for everyone, but I'll bet it would work for some folks. IMO you do not always need to waste people's time with an articicial fixed review schedule if there is no practical reason to do so.
 

Douglas E. Purdy

Quite Involved in Discussions
#19
Thanks!

RCBeyette said:
What is the difference between a Document Review (what my company does) and a Re-Approval (what you are proposing)?
Wow, thanks for waking me up! To show my ignorance - Since I read RFI -030, "There is no requirement for an additional review (as defined in ISO 9000:2000 clause 3.8.7)," I began looking at the 4.2.3.b as a Re-approval activity other than the traditional change control - similar to what I have seen with some specification bodies that give a Re-Approved Status for documents that have not changed for so many years. What a RELIEF! Now everyone can go ahead and laugh at me. I guess it is time for me to go to some refresher training and NOT totally rely on experience and interactions with Covers.

Doug
 

SteelMaiden

Super Moderator
Super Moderator
#20
We do things quite similar to RC. We have and implementation date for each document, then a revision date for all subsequent revs. These show up on the web for personnel to see. Then, we have what we call reassessment dates. during the month of the last revision (or implementation, or reassessment) each year, a list of documents is sent (electronically) to the each approver. The approvers then go over their list, if a rev is needed they implement a revision. If all is well, they pull up the reassessment screen, enter the doc id number, and click the reassessed, document current and valid. button. this adds an entry to the doc control database showing that the document was looked at, and is ok as is at that time. This is the date the new date for the computer to use when looking for documents that have gone for 1 year without a rev.
 
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