Documentation Approvals Frequency

Fatima97

Starting to get Involved
Hello everyone,

During an internal audit, we found some work instructions that were last approved since 2008,by people who are no longer in the company, and they claim that these instructions are still valid till now. Is this a Non-conformity? I have a feeling that it has to be approved by the new managers, but I'm not sure if there's an actual requirement that says that whenever a new person is in charge of a department, he has to re-approve of all documents.
I was thinking of raising it as an Opportunity of improvement, but I don't want to wrongly classify the finding.

Waiting for you support :)

Thank you!
 

Mike S.

Happy to be Alive
Trusted Information Resource
Hello everyone,

During an internal audit, we found some work instructions that were last approved since 2008,by people who are no longer in the company, and they claim that these instructions are still valid till now. Is this a Non-conformity? I have a feeling that it has to be approved by the new managers, but I'm not sure if there's an actual requirement that says that whenever a new person is in charge of a department, he has to re-approve of all documents.
I was thinking of raising it as an Opportunity of improvement, but I don't want to wrongly classify the finding.

Waiting for you support :)

Thank you!
For there to be a NC there must be a requirement not being met. What is the requirement not being met?
 

KDenton

Registered
We do document review once every three years or sooner if necessary. Necessary might be a procedure change or a customer required change.
 

Mike S.

Happy to be Alive
Trusted Information Resource
We do document review once every three years or sooner if necessary. Necessary might be a procedure change or a customer required change.
That's probably the result of a written or unwritten internal requirement, right?
 

Golfman25

Trusted Information Resource
Hello everyone,

During an internal audit, we found some work instructions that were last approved since 2008,by people who are no longer in the company, and they claim that these instructions are still valid till now. Is this a Non-conformity? I have a feeling that it has to be approved by the new managers, but I'm not sure if there's an actual requirement that says that whenever a new person is in charge of a department, he has to re-approve of all documents.
I was thinking of raising it as an Opportunity of improvement, but I don't want to wrongly classify the finding.

Waiting for you support :)

Thank you!
There is nothing wrong with prior approvals. As long as you're not seeing issues with the work instructions in practice, I would move on to something more meaningful. Nothing will ruin employee attitudes towards the QMS more than unnecessary make work that isn't required or valued added.
 

QuinnM

Involved In Discussions
Consider the internal requirement. What does it pertain to; SOPs, work instructions, guidance documents, etc. If the internal document does not include work instructions, then this would not be a nonconformance to you procedure.
 

Randy

Super Moderator
Age makes procedures or documents wrong? That's the argument?

Here's an ancient Sumerian formula for beer, is it invalid because of age?

Documentation Approvals Frequency

How about the procedure for Kool-Aid, it's almost 100 years old, is it no longer valid because the person who wrote it is long dead?

Documentation Approvals Frequency

Don't get wrapped around the axle over stuff.
 

KDenton

Registered
Age does not make a document wrong. But processes change as the technology advances. Our processes change due to many factors, documents that describe the process or the procedure on how to perform those processes need to be reveiwed. Preferably when the process changes, but definately at some point!
 

Bifften

Involved In Discussions
Hello everyone,

During an internal audit, we found some work instructions that were last approved since 2008,by people who are no longer in the company, and they claim that these instructions are still valid till now. Is this a Non-conformity? I have a feeling that it has to be approved by the new managers, but I'm not sure if there's an actual requirement that says that whenever a new person is in charge of a department, he has to re-approve of all documents.
I was thinking of raising it as an Opportunity of improvement, but I don't want to wrongly classify the finding.

Waiting for you support :)

Thank you!

In my current company it would be a Non-Conformity due to our Documental Information Procedure for the QMS.

Documents are only approved at every version change, but must be validated every 12 months by the Process Owner. The Process Owner must always be a current employee.

So, in your scenario: Nothing wrong with a document last updated and approved in 2008 by someone no longer in the company... the process may still be the same but that should have been validated by the currently responsible person.

Thats per our policy of course, although I think in ISO 9001 terms.... 7.5.2 c) When creating and updating documented information, the organisation shall ensure appropriate review and approval for suitability and adequacy,
 
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