Documentation Required by IATF 16949 (Automotive QMS)

H

hjoul

#1
Hello,

I have been discussing the item about required documented process with several people, but consensus on the topic seems a though case.

What do you people understand in:

Shall have a documented process(es)
Shall document a/its process
Shall maintain a documented process

I counted 21 times documented process excluding documented system/policy.


Tx,
 
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QualitySpirit

Involved In Discussions
#2
Re: IATF 16949 Required documentation

Hi, it is really a big change from documented procedure to documented process.

A process may be documented by a process identity card, flow chart, turtle diagram, with risk analysis.

elements of a process e.g. input, output, customer, supplier, with whom, with what, how, measurement, process owner, and associated risk analysis must be defined.
 

Peters

Quite Involved in Discussions
#3
Re: IATF 16949 Required documentation

I'm very curious how rigorously it will be treated by the auditors.
Process flow-chart is enough or has to be the turtle elements or the process card?
Does it have to be shown on the map of the processes?
 

Stijloor

Staff member
Super Moderator
#4
Re: IATF 16949 Required documentation

I have been discussing the item about required documented process with several people, but consensus on the topic seems a though case.

What do you people understand in:

Shall have a documented process(es)
Shall document a/its process
Shall maintain a documented process

I counted 21 times documented process excluding documented system/policy.
Sadly, the IATF standards writers have not been very consistent in their language use. "Documented" simply means that it has to be "written" (Electronically and/or hard copy) so that it can be used by those who depend on that information to perform their jobs. Don't get too wrapped up in the verbiage; do what makes sense for your Organization and its "Interested Parties."

All the best! :agree1:
 

Sidney Vianna

Post Responsibly
Staff member
Admin
#5
What do you people understand in:

Shall have a documented process(es)
Shall document a/its process
Shall maintain a documented process
It must be defined in some form of media, such as a (textual) procedure, a flow chart, a process map, a diagram, pictorially, video, audio, or any combination thereof.

The concept behind "documenting processes" is the fact that processes that are "ill/poorly defined" and transmitted via tribal knowledge, word of mouth, verbal instructions only tend to deviate from the target. It is very difficult to deploy a process that is only defined inside the mind of a person. It is also very difficult to assess if the process is working as intended and is effective.

While overdocumenting a process is also a problem, it is much easier to apply lean practices to an inflated documentation package than to run an organization with processes that are not defined and clear to the workforce.
 
H

hjoul

#6
IATF released the standard and that's it.
So many terms and definitions and no documented process, assuming the hole automotive world knows what's behind it.

Nevertheless it will be something as described in previous posts.

A turtle, adding ownership, stakeholders affected, risk and opportunities,...
 
Last edited:
D

dmp06

#7
Not including the scope, policy, manual, etc.
1. Product safety (4.4.1.1.1)
2.******Calibration (7.1.5.2.1)
3.******Training (7.2.1)
4.******Internal auditor competency (7.2.3)
5.******Employee motivation and empowerment (7.3.2)
6.******Quality manual (7.5.1.1)
7.******Engineering specifications (7.5.3.2.2)
8.******Outsourced processes (8.4.2.1)
9.******Supplier monitoring (8.4.2.4)
10.**Change control (8.5.6.1)
11.**Control of rework (8.7.1.4)
12.**Repaired products (8.7.1.5)
13.**Non-conforming product (8.7.1.7)
14.**Problem solving (CA) (10.2.3)
15.**Error proofing (10.2.4)
16.**Continual improvement (10.3.1)
 
Q

QAMTY

#8
First, try to define your quality Policy, after that, define objectives, such objectives must be sopported by all the processes.

E.G. if you define in your policy that your products have high quality, and you satisfy your customers, then in your objectives you will try to have in control what your policy says, additionaly define how are you to going to measure them (goals).
% of Corrective actions closures, % of audits, % of customer satisfaction, % of rejected products, % on time delivery,etc.
On the web there are plenty of information on this matter.

Regards
 
D

dmp06

#9
First steps are to define the context, identify internal and external issues, risks and opportunities, relevant interested parties and needs and expectations, before establishing any objectives.
 
A

AthenaMZ

#10
While overdocumenting a process is also a problem, it is much easier to apply lean practices to an inflated documentation package than to run an organization with processes that are not defined and clear to the workforce.
I must disagree.

Presumably, the OP is not starting a business. They are merely inquiring about IATF documentation requirements, a few of which are new with this revision. The organization is busy running, so hjoul can focus on documenting only what makes sense.

If you document anything and everything, hoping to get back to it later and shave the volume of documentation down to a more sensible level, that may never happen, and then you're stuck with a bloated documentation system that is draining your organization of resources and causing non-conformances. Heh, just like the documentation system of the company I was just hired on with. Less than 100 people and highly-automated, robot technology on the shop floor, but almost 600 controlled procedures, work instructions, process flows and forms, rife with duplicate information and often rendered useless by oversimplification.

These days, documentation systems should be light on the documentation and heavy on the training records. Gone are the days of documenting every last step because, "What if someone is hit by a bus?" I am presenting to my new company on Thursday, the first step in what will be a loooooong process of turning this ship around and getting these bad habits broken.

Hjoul, it is best to just not pick up the bad habits to begin with. There is an AIAG PowerPoint presentation that runs through the new version of the standard clause by clause. This should assist in your mission to define what is required. I can't link you to it because I am too new, but google "Automotive QMS Update IATF 16949:2016 September 2016 - AIAG" and that should do it.

Yes, you must document those things the standard requires you to document. But how you do that is not up to a registrar, and don't you let them tell you otherwise. Do what is most effective for YOUR organization. If your organization is small, and you keep your documentation minimal, it might make sense to ask the end users what format would be most useful to them.

Good luck!
 
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