Documenting Machine Shop In-Process Checks

DWPOZE

Registered Visitor
#1
We are a machine shop. Our inspection plan ask our operators to check 2pcs/hour on some characteristics. Is it required by TS16949 to record there results of there hourly checks. Thanks for your help!!!:truce:
 
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Gert Sorensen

Forum Moderator
Moderator
#2
Re: Documenting In-Process Checks

If you don't record your tests, how are you going to assure yourself and the company purchasing the parts that they have been checked and conform to specifications?
 
#3
Re: Documenting In-Process Checks

We are a machine shop. Our inspection plan ask our operators to check 2pcs/hour on some characteristics. Is it required by TS16949 to record there results of there hourly checks. Thanks for your help!!!:truce:
You will have to show that you are implementing the product measurements required by the control plan etc. More than that, you have to have data (so check marks won't do) to be able to detect any trends. So, variables data (or attributes, through the gauging system) are the preferred method. A control chart would be the most appropriate, but not absolutely necessary.

Your people should also be very careful about assigning a check on the basis of 'two per hour'. What is the validity of performing these checks in controlling product/process? If you make only 2 items in an hour it's a 100% check, if you make 10,000, the sample becomes less 'statistically significant' (you do the math, it's too early.........:notme:)

:2cents:
 
B

Bill Ryan - 2007

#4
Gert and Andy bring up good, "common sensical", points, and there are any number of others - customer specific requirements notwithstanding. However, to anwer your specific question - No, TS16949 does explicitly demand that you record the results of the hourly checks.
 
R

rdd007

#5
I know this is an old post, but ... where exactly does TS16949 'explicitly demand' that we record the results? We have a machine shop as well, and it could take longer to write down all of the measurements than to actually make the parts ... What is really needed for our business and to satisfy the audit requirement?
 

Stijloor

Staff member
Super Moderator
#6
I know this is an old post, but ... where exactly does TS16949 'explicitly demand' that we record the results? We have a machine shop as well, and it could take longer to write down all of the measurements than to actually make the parts ... What is really needed for our business and to satisfy the audit requirement?
The results could be pass or fail, or evidence that the operator actually inspected the parts. Actual measurements may be required at PPAP submission.

Stijloor.
 

Jim Wynne

Staff member
Admin
#7
Gert and Andy bring up good, "common sensical", points, and there are any number of others - customer specific requirements notwithstanding. However, to anwer your specific question - No, TS16949 does explicitly demand that you record the results of the hourly checks.
I know this is an old post, but ... where exactly does TS16949 'explicitly demand' that we record the results? We have a machine shop as well, and it could take longer to write down all of the measurements than to actually make the parts ... What is really needed for our business and to satisfy the audit requirement?
I'm not speaking for Bill Ryan, but his post reads as though he meant to say, "...does not explicitly demand..."
 

bobdoering

Stop X-bar/R Madness!!
Trusted Information Resource
#8
I know this is an old post, but ... where exactly does TS16949 'explicitly demand' that we record the results?
I hate to bring this up, but recording results because TS16949 says so or not is really the worst rational. Other rationals to consider is if there is a problem, the data was relatively cheap insurance to determine when the problem started, and what lead up to it. Not collecting data "because it takes time" can cost you in the long term, with unnecessary sorts, recalls and weak corrective actions. There should be solid reasons to collect data, if one seriously considers the consequences of not having the data.

Of course, part of the problem is collecting incorrect data, and having that frustration drive you to not collect any data at all. I have seen that in machining operations. Some of that is discussed in Statistical process control for precision machining :cool:
 
R

rdd007

#9
Bob:

yes ... i know that doing it only to meet the audit is a poor rationale; I'm just trying to understand what auditors expect/'demand' so that I can make the decisions of how to implement/improve our system between where we are now and what we will have for the audit.

btw, i like your book/approach very much ... we're going to be implementing that as well. SPC was always difficult any other way.

Thanks
 
#10
Bob:

yes ... i know that doing it only to meet the audit is a poor rationale; I'm just trying to understand what auditors expect/'demand' so that I can make the decisions of how to implement/improve our system between where we are now and what we will have for the audit.

btw, i like your book/approach very much ... we're going to be implementing that as well. SPC was always difficult any other way.

Thanks
I'm at a loss to understand why you need to be comfortable with what auditors demand or expect. They are there to audit what your system defines are your process controls (in this respect). Taken to extreme, you'd do something different each and every time another auditor turns up, since they all have their own biases.

Stop worrying about what auditors want to see - run your processes effectively, by your numbers! They can't argue with the numbers! (Well, if they do, find a new one!)
 
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