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Does anyone actually do a Pareto of the Top 5 (highest) RPN's of PFMEA?

A

acook81

#1
Does anyone actually do a Pareto of the Top 5 (highest) RPN's of PFMEA? :mg:
In reading over the Ford Q1 requirements it appears to be a requirement, but is anyone really doing it and how? We can barely get a group together to develop the PFMEA, much less review it later. :whip:
:yes: I understand the importance of PFMEA and how it should be used as a tool to put out fires before they start. But in reality, no one ever uses it the right way. How do you get a culture to change and understand that if you spend more time on Potential failures, you will not have to spend so much time putting out fires. :frust:
 
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Helmut Jilling

Auditor / Consultant
#2
acook81 said:
Does anyone actually do a Pareto of the Top 5 (highest) RPN's of PFMEA? :mg:
In reading over the Ford Q1 requirements it appears to be a requirement, but is anyone really doing it and how? We can barely get a group together to develop the PFMEA, much less review it later. :whip:
:yes: I understand the importance of PFMEA and how it should be used as a tool to put out fires before they start. But in reality, no one ever uses it the right way. How do you get a culture to change and understand that if you spend more time on Potential failures, you will not have to spend so much time putting out fires. :frust:

Some people do, but not enough.
 
D

Dr. Electron

#3
acook81 said:
Does anyone actually do a Pareto of the Top 5 (highest) RPN's of PFMEA? :mg:
In reading over the Ford Q1 requirements it appears to be a requirement, but is anyone really doing it and how? We can barely get a group together to develop the PFMEA, much less review it later. :whip:
:yes: I understand the importance of PFMEA and how it should be used as a tool to put out fires before they start. But in reality, no one ever uses it the right way. How do you get a culture to change and understand that if you spend more time on Potential failures, you will not have to spend so much time putting out fires. :frust:

I've done one...and I could summarize how if you would like. (It is a little involved) I did it because I had extra time...but I think it makes sense to do it for FMEAs...and really gets people to focus on the most important issues.
 
B

bgwiehle

#4
Pareto of the Top RPN's of PFMEA

The original poster's question has 2 components - (1) can/do we pareto the RPNs and (2) do we use the FMEAs and pareto charts to target risk reduction.

(1)
As I understand it, most of the canned FMEA programs can generate pareto charts of the RPNs.

We use Excel for our FMEAs*, which are organized as separate processes. This means that a pareto for any particular process is not too difficult but rather involved when collating the RPNs for all the processes that make a specific part, which is what customers want when they ask to see such a chart.

What we have developed (in-house) is an Access-based program that searches through all the Excel FMEA files and builds a database of RPNS with associated failure modes and causes. One of the reports is a Top RPN list, that can be tailored in scope.

* for flexibility of content and presentation

(2)
We generally don't use the pareto list itself. Most of the ongoing high RPNs belong to items that apply to service parts or are otherwise not feasible for improvement (at this time).

We use the PFMEAs directly for targeting improvement. Whenever we do a FMEA review of a new or existing process, risk reduction and improvement ideas are generated and evaluated. Corrective actions and improvements identified by other methods are also documented. These can apply to any RPN.


B.G. Wiehle
PFMEA Coordinator
 

Jim Wynne

Staff member
Admin
#5
acook81 said:
Does anyone actually do a Pareto of the Top 5 (highest) RPN's of PFMEA? :mg:
In reading over the Ford Q1 requirements it appears to be a requirement, but is anyone really doing it and how? We can barely get a group together to develop the PFMEA, much less review it later. :whip:
:yes: I understand the importance of PFMEA and how it should be used as a tool to put out fires before they start. But in reality, no one ever uses it the right way. How do you get a culture to change and understand that if you spend more time on Potential failures, you will not have to spend so much time putting out fires. :frust:
Do you mean does anyone actually make Pareto charts? If there are only 5 candidates, it's probably not necessary to actually make a chart. In fact, the only reason to make a chart (usually) is if you want a graphic depiction in order to display the problems. I think a lot of people consider the top (you number here) problems, but don't necessarily do anything about them, either because they're doing PFMEA just to satisfy a customer requirement, or there's nothing reasonable that can be done.
 
A

acook81

#6
:thanks:
Thanks for the quick response. It answer's some questions. I guess the bottom line that I really need to know is if anyone pareto's their PFMEA's for the Ford Q1 requirement? Do you know how anal :D the Ford STA will be about this. It has never been done here and they really need to pass the Q1 audit. I just don't know if I can get it done. I understand how easy a Pareto is to develop. They use M-Pact for the Process Flow, Control Plan and PFMEA, but the data can easily be transformed into a chart. But getting an Engineer to do it, is a whole other box of worms. I don't know how to answer the Q1, the requirement states " FMEA's are reviewed annually or as issues arise. A pareto is used to focus on 1) severity, 2) the product of severity and occurence, and 3) to identify high RPN's in order to prioritize actions to drive improvements."
And the most important question, how do you get people to do this? Just getting the FMEA documented for PPAP is like pulling teeth. :bonk: Any suggestions???
 
B

bgwiehle

#7
acook81 said:
...And the most important question, how do you get people to do this? Just getting the FMEA documented for PPAP is like pulling teeth. :bonk: Any suggestions???
Our FMEA system works because of 3 key factors:
- management committment (a familiar phrase for any system component of a management standard), esp. by both Plant Engineering & Quality Assurance.
- organization of PFMEA documentation to reduce redundancy by use of process-specific FMEAs (generic across all parts and programs or specific to a particular sub-set).
- focused meetings - 1 hour/week, on a particular process/ process/ part, with relevant required attendees representing a cross-functional group. Over the course of the year, we are able to cover the currently active and the developing processes at least once.

Our documentation has been looked at by Ford, GM & Chrysler, also some other Tier 1's. Improvement is always desirable, but most of the feedback has been favorable.

How you set up your system will depend on your product type and processes.

Hope this helps,
B.G. Wiehle
 
A

acook81

#8
bgwiehle said:
Our FMEA system works because of 3 key factors:
- management committment (a familiar phrase for any system component of a management standard), esp. by both Plant Engineering & Quality Assurance.
- organization of PFMEA documentation to reduce redundancy by use of process-specific FMEAs (generic across all parts and programs or specific to a particular sub-set).
- focused meetings - 1 hour/week, on a particular process/ process/ part, with relevant required attendees representing a cross-functional group. Over the course of the year, we are able to cover the currently active and the developing processes at least once.

Our documentation has been looked at by Ford, GM & Chrysler, also some other Tier 1's. Improvement is always desirable, but most of the feedback has been favorable.

How you set up your system will depend on your product type and processes.

Hope this helps,
B.G. Wiehle
That all sounds good, but no one here has ever had a cross functional team meeting for FMEA review and management commitment or involvement is really lacking. Thanks for the input, I wish I could say they have the 3 key factors, unfortunately it is not a reality.
 
B

bgwiehle

#9
acook81 said:
That all sounds good, but no one here has ever had a cross functional team meeting for FMEA review and management commitment or involvement is really lacking. Thanks for the input, I wish I could say they have the 3 key factors, unfortunately it is not a reality.
I'm sorry there's no magic solution for you. It didn't happen overnight for us either: First, there was a realization that if we had to do this customer-mandated activity, we might as well do it right and reap some of the benefits ourselves. Then we set it up to be as painless as possible. In addition, the system has had to evolve to meet new customer requirements.

If your engineers are being asked to develop the PFMEA without any kind of support, it should be no surprise that the result is superficial, last-minute and probably never updated again.

You haven't included any details of your FMEA system -- is there any organization to the whole? Whose department is responsible for ensuring the document is ready for submission at PPAP? Have the responsible persons had training in using the technique? The answers to these questions may give some direction on how to improve the situation.

B. G. Wiehle
 
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