Does AS9100 require approving your Customer as a Supplier?

G

greg5362

#1
Hi All,
I have been a visitor for a few years and this would be my first post. Having just sucessfully completed our AS9100 registration upgrade from ISO13485/ISO9001 I have a question I hope the Elsmar readers can share some insight on. Since we are a subcontract manufacturer, we have occasion to "buy" components from out customers to support their current builds due to long lead times or new product start ups. Is it required that we certify our customers as approved suppliers and add the to our AVL?
I believe it is, but our sales and purchasing folks are reluctant to support the effort for these isolated procurements.
Thanks for the input!
Greg
 
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Sidney Vianna

Post Responsibly
Staff member
Admin
#2
Since we are a subcontract manufacturer, we have occasion to "buy" components from out customers to support their current builds due to long lead times or new product start ups. Is it required that we certify our customers as approved suppliers and add the to our AVL?
No, this scenario falls under the auspices of customer property. If you "effectively" implement the requirements associated with customer property, you are covered.
 
#3
Hi Sidney,

Can you elaborate little more why it should be considered as customer property?Though there is requirement of verification and other controls for customer property but here the company is "buying" the products.

I agree with you that some amount of extra non value adding activities (vendor evaluation, selection and re-evaluation) will be generated if it is considered as purchase activity but same time amount of control also would be reduced if it is considered as customer property.

Also I would like to draw your attention to clause 7.4.3
Verification by the customer shall not be used by the organization as evidence of effective control of quality by the supplier and shall not absolve the organization of the responsibility to provide acceptable product, nor shall it preclude subsequent rejection by the customer.
So will the organisation not escape from this requirement (read responsibility) if it is considered as customer property?

Your selection of word "effectively" is meaningful but buy and purchase have same meaning.So once the company is buying from customer, why not to put it in AVL?

Kindly help to understand with your thoughts.
 

Sidney Vianna

Post Responsibly
Staff member
Admin
#4
So will the organisation not escape from this requirement (read responsibility) if it is considered as customer property?

Your selection of word "effectively" is meaningful but buy and purchase have same meaning.So once the company is buying from customer, why not to put it in AVL?

Kindly help to understand with your thoughts.
If you pay close attention to the OP, you will note that the term buy was between quotes. That is because the supplier is not really procuring the parts, but parts are being provided via a transaction for incorporation into a product that is destined for that customer.

Based on my understanding of the scenario, an artificial qualification of this customer as a supplier would be non value added, because I really don't see the chance of that "supplier" being disqualified.

So, by treating the situation as customer property, the registrant still has to verify the adequacy of the parts being supplied for incorporation. And certainly, that includes the reporting of unsuitable products. That is my take.
 
A

alspread

#6
Yes and no.

:2cents:

I have had cases were my system required me to add a customer to the approved supplier list, however, I did define some special circumstances for customers as suppliers.

Joy does have a very legitmate point when it comes to product verification requirement for product supplied by or purchased from the customer.

I think the standard is crystal clear that an organization is still responsible for the quality of the product no matter where it comes from.

Just because the incoming purchased product came from the customer it doesn't give the supplier a get out of jail free card if the purchased or consigned product does not meet the purchase order requirement.

Which brings up another sticky point. Without a purchase order defining the requirements (regardless of value) of the product you can't define what you are getting and in order for the supplier to generate a PO, many systems require the vendor (sic Customer) to be in their MRP ASL system.

I bring these points up mostly for discussion. I don't expect one to go out and survey and potentially disqualify their customer as a supplier, but the system sometimes requires us to be creative in unique situations.

Good luck.
 
J
#7
Hello Sidney,

Requesting little more help from you.I have two points where I am facing slight difficulty to be convinced with your logic.

1.Even customer designated suppliers are also enjoying same status as the customer and for them your logic of "no possibility to disapprove" may apply.However,even customer designated suppliers are also brought under control of purchase process.Is there much difference between customer and customer designated source?:)
Clause 7.4.1-The organization shall be responsible for the quality of all products purchased from suppliers, including customer-designated sources
2.Though it is unlikely that customer and organisation is under two different regulatory requirements/bodies but if it happens,how the following requirement can be addressed? (hypothetical!).So far I have not any such situation but I need to be flexible.

Clause 7.4.2-right of access by the organization, their customer, and regulatory authorities to all facilities involved in the order and to all applicable records, and
I tried to find answer but could not.I still agree to your logic that forcing customer as supplier will not add much value to purchase process.
 
G

greg5362

#8
The COVE is such a great place..
Thanks All for your insight. I agree that control of customer supplied product is they key element, and as such adding the customer to the approved supplier list provides the path of least resistance for me to documenting that control since all the reporting systems are in place to support the AVL.

I think I will create an additional category of "CUSTOMER" supplier approval and add to our AVL for monitoring/ control purposes. This will allow visibility to their supplier performance trends and provide for necessary feedback of issues found. And the no charge PO can still have the applicable quality clauses listed.
Greg
:thanks:
 
J
#9
Hello friend,

Please wait for Sidney's response to my questions.I understand that you are trying to find a safe path after my questions but I am sure that he will come out with some solutions as he suggested to consider the situation as customer property.
 
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