Does AS9100 require Suppliers to be Certified to ISO or AS?

[al40]

I would like to discuss this as it came up in a recent discussion by my management team:
Do we have to mandate that our external providers be ISO or AS certified if we are and if we don't how do we defend this with our AS CB?

My philosophy is that supplier ISO/AS certification does not mean that product quality is guaranteed. It simply means that a supplier should have processes in place to adequately insure that the end product should meet specification requirements.

Regardless It is our responsibility to ensure that purchased product conforms to specified purchase requirements. The type and extent of control applied to the supplier and the purchased product may be decided based on the effect of the purchased product on subsequent product realization and associated risk.

What is the cove's viewpoints on this?

Thanks,
Al40

 

[Mike S.]

There is no "shall" in AS9100 (and therefore ISO9001) requiring your suppliers to be certified to anything.

 

[Coury Ferguson]

I would like to discuss this as it came up in a recent discussion by my management team:
Do we have to mandate that our external providers be ISO or AS certified if we are and if we don't how do we defend this with our AS CB?

My philosophy is that supplier ISO/AS certification does not mean that product quality is guaranteed. It simply means that a supplier should have processes in place to adequately insure that the end product should meet specification requirements.

Regardless It is our responsibility to ensure that purchased product conforms to specified purchase requirements. The type and extent of control applied to the supplier and the purchased product may be decided based on the effect of the purchased product on subsequent product realization and associated risk.

What is the cove's viewpoints on this?

Thanks,
Al40

In my opinion, the answer would be no. However, it might mean you need to perform some type of audit of that supplier, for your comfort, that they have some type of system in place. Yes you are correct when you say that the Registration does not guarantee product, but at least you can be comfortable to a certain point that they have processes that are documented.

 

[howste]

I would like to discuss this as it came up in a recent discussion by my management team:
Do we have to mandate that our external providers be ISO or AS certified if we are and if we don't how do we defend this with our AS CB?

AS9100 mentions this in a note in 8.4.1.

NOTE: During external provider evaluation and selection, the organization can use quality data from objective and reliable external sources, as evaluated by the organization (e.g., information from accredited quality management system or process certification bodies, external provider approvals from government authorities or customers). Use of such data would be only one element of an organization’s external provider control process and the organization remains responsible for verifying that externally provided processes, products, and services meet specified requirements.

The short story is you "can" use supplier certification as part of your supplier evaluation and selection process. It is definitely not required, and even if you do require your suppliers to be certified there are additional requirements you still need to meet to ensure that the product is good.

 

[Sidney Vianna]

The standard itself does not require the flow down of supplier certification but some customers might, as exemplified and discussed @ the Boeing QMS Requirements for Tier 2 Distributors thread.

 

[Eredhel]

Here is an example from another situation. We came across someone that tried to say that all our suppliers, domestic coaters and such, had to be ITAR registered as well as us. Our thinking was similar to this thread, no. But I dug in and eventually got an answer straight from the government office over it and they said no the suppliers don't have to as well (so long as there were no ITAR needs for what they were doing of course.)

I think it's a similar problem, some people trying to require more than is really there.

 

[Ozzie Aero]

I would like to discuss this as it came up in a recent discussion by my management team:
Do we have to mandate that our external providers be ISO or AS certified if we are and if we don't how do we defend this with our AS CB?

My philosophy is that supplier ISO/AS certification does not mean that product quality is guaranteed. It simply means that a supplier should have processes in place to adequately insure that the end product should meet specification requirements.

Regardless It is our responsibility to ensure that purchased product conforms to specified purchase requirements. The type and extent of control applied to the supplier and the purchased product may be decided based on the effect of the purchased product on subsequent product realization and associated risk.

What is the cove's viewpoints on this?

Thanks,
Al40

AS9100 itself "NO".
However, for the suppliers machine / assembly the parts: AS manufacturer must have AS9100 in order to make/assembly parts which is required by BOEING AIRBUS. This requirements must be flow down to all subcontracting machining suppliers. Your customer must require you to be AS9100, and you must require your subcontracting machining supplier to be AS9100.

 

[joburum]

Customer's may require it. I appreciate having ours as most of our customers don't feel the need to do their own audit of us as they trust the AS standard.

 

[al40]

Thanks All,
I appreciate the responses it was very helpful. To follow up on some questions: We have a very robust process in place for supplier evaluations based on risk and criticality/$. We just have a couple of local suppliers that have good systems provide a quality product in place but are not certified.
Just wanted to make sure I didn't miss the mark.

Best wishes,
Al40