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Does being traceable to NIST meet the requirements of ISO standards?

R

Richgage

#1
A discussion has come up recently. Does being traceable to NIST acceptable during an ISO audit?
Example: I have a gage block that has a certificate that is "traceable" to NIST. Does that meet an ISO audit as acceptable? Is being traceable good enough or do I need to have it done by a ISO 17025 accredited lab?

Thank you for your answers.:notme:
 
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J

Jason PCSwitches

#2
Re: Does being traceable to NIST meet ISO standards?

[FONT=&quot]How long have you had those gage blocks? Are you using them to verify/calibrate other equipment? Are they included in your calibration system? See where I'm going, if your trying to use the cert that came with the gage blocks, you'll probably have some issues, especially if your using those blocks to validate equipment used to accept product.

Review 7.6.
[/FONT]
 
#3
Re: Does being traceable to NIST meet ISO standards?

A discussion has come up recently. Does being traceable to NIST acceptable during an ISO audit?
Example: I have a gage block that has a certificate that is "traceable" to NIST. Does that meet an ISO audit as acceptable? Is being traceable good enough or do I need to have it done by a ISO 17025 accredited lab?

Thank you for your answers.:notme:
ISO 9001 says in 7.6 a) - it has to be traceable. Period. (unless there's no universal std, which in your case isn't true)

There always have been good labs, long before ISO/IEC 17025 came along who could provide that requirement. But what's the point of traceability if you don't use it properly, which is to factor the uncertainty into the measurement process?

Yes, it will pass an 'ISO' audit, but are you using the information correctly?
 
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D

Duke Okes

#4
Re: Does being traceable to NIST meet ISO standards?

Whether or not it will pass the audit depends on how frequently you indicate the gage blocks (and other devices) should be calibrated and whether or not that is actually being done. Traceability to NIST would be expected, but only applies to the specific calibration period. 17025 is not required by ISO 9001.
 

BradM

Staff member
Admin
#5
Re: Does being traceable to NIST meet ISO standards?

There might be some secondary issues, like if the vendor is on your approved vendor list, the documentation meets your internal requirements, and the instruments meet any requirements that you have.

Also, there may be some contract requirements. For example, assuring that what you required was satisfied with what you received.

17025 accreditation is a good thing to have from vendors.:agree1: However, I would suggest that is does not exempt the customer from doing their due diligence in regards to the 9001 requirements for contract, vendor, and documentation requirements.:)
 

Jen Kirley

Quality and Auditing Expert
Staff member
Admin
#6
Re: Does being traceable to NIST meet ISO standards?

Many good responses so far. :applause:

You have some gage blocks. NIST traceability is important and so is conforming to ISO, but these aren't the point. Making sure those gage blocks are always accurately verifying dimensions is the important point. And ISO asks us to have a system to manage that.

So the gage blocks are doing a job, and you need to understand what kind of wear to expect in how much time. This helps determine both what kind of gage blocks to buy (there are different materials and grades that represent various resolution) and how long between calibrations.

Maybe you'll decide to have a master set for inspections, and a few "working sets" for setups and shop use. You'll need to plan your calibrations to ensure you always have a set ready to use.

So you've decided what to buy, and how often to get the sets checked. There are a range of calibration shops to choose from (see how long it took me to get to the part you asked about?) and their having 17025 accreditation is frankly secondary to NIST traceability. I know of a very good calibration house that didn't get accreditation for many years. This consideration is a worthwhile one if your customers take a stake in it, but otherwise the question is one of supplier control. Getting a calibration service that's 17025 tends to give enough of a comfort level that the place won't need a supplier audit visit.

Overwhelmed yet? I can make anything hard. :D
 
A

amanbhai

#7
Re: Does being traceable to NIST meet ISO standards?

There might be some secondary issues, like if the vendor is on your approved vendor list, the documentation meets your internal requirements, and the instruments meet any requirements that you have.

Also, there may be some contract requirements. For example, assuring that what you required was satisfied with what you received.

17025 accreditation is a good thing to have from vendors.:agree1: However, I would suggest that is does not exempt the customer from doing their due diligence in regards to the 9001 requirements for contract, vendor, and documentation requirements.:)
If the vendor is accredited to ISO 17025m I beleive that the same vendor would be fulfilling the requirements of contract such as but not limited to the requirements for quality system, traceability and competence of personnel.
I don't understand your point of exception.
 

harry

Super Moderator
#9
There are two issues here:-

What is traceability?
.....................It is important to note that traceability is the property of the result of a measurement, not of an instrument or calibration report or laboratory. It is not achieved by following any one particular procedure or using special equipment. Merely having an instrument calibrated, even by NIST, is not enough to make the measurement result obtained from that instrument traceable to realizations of the appropriate SI unit or other specified references.
What is NIST?
......................The job of NIST is twofold: to ensure U.S. national standards are accurate realizations of the SI units and to transfer the values of those standards to the U.S. measurement system through calibrations and other types of measurement services. Direct customers of NIST’s measurement services take advantage of the opportunity to tie their internal measurement standards to NIST standards and hence, to the SI units. These companies, in turn, use their standards to provide measurement services to their customers, to meet regulatory requirements, and to provide quality assurance in their manufacturing processes.
Link: Questions about Metrological Traceability in General


Does being traceable to NIST acceptable during an ISO audit?
Audit to ISO 9001 or ISO 17025 standard?
 
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BradM

Staff member
Admin
#10
Re: Does being traceable to NIST meet ISO standards?

If the vendor is accredited to ISO 17025m I beleive that the same vendor would be fulfilling the requirements of contract such as but not limited to the requirements for quality system, traceability and competence of personnel.
I don't understand your point of exception.
Hi there!!:bigwave:

Yes, you are correct. 17025 satisfies all the requirements that would be found in 9001.

My points were from the perspective of the customer. If you are purchasing calibration services from a 17025 accredited lab, you as the customer still have the same requirements as they would otherwise.

Make sense?:D
 
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