Does Disciplinary Action Reduce Operator Errors?

M

Mules

#1
Is disciplinary action (i.e. progressive discipline warnings) an effective corrective action to reduce operator documantation errors and process deviations on a shop floor?
 
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Stijloor

Staff member
Super Moderator
#2
Is disciplinary action (i.e. progressive discipline warnings) an effective corrective action to reduce operator documantation errors and process deviations on a shop floor?
Welcome to The Cove Forums. :bigwave:

Disciplinary action is very ineffective because often folks get punished for issues over which they have limited control. Putting people in a flawed system and holding them accountable is counterproductive.

Stijloor.
 
S

somerqc

#3
Progressive Discipline has its place; however, ensure that what the person is being disciplined over be resolved by actions they can take.

For example, if they are constantly absent this is something under their control (there are exceptions where discipline is not appropriate such as family medical issues; however, those should be the exception).

However, to discipline them for a production issue where the system is the root cause is counter productive and ineffective.

Unfortunately, my approach seems to be in the minority.:frust:
 
M

Mules

#4
Thanks for your replies. I guess discipline can show the sense of importance of SOP steps, following processes, etc. but can it also lead to tunnel vision when it comes to root cause analysis? For example, it seems convenient that corrective actions become blame oriented. Things like "retrain operators", "discipline operators", "revise SOP" and the like may prevent digging deeper. Also, is it possible that this could hurt morale and lead operators to not be as forthcoming with information or "near hits"? Do regulatory agencies view "counsel operators", retrain operators, etc. as viable corrective actions?
 
#5
I would also add that disciplinary actions should be limited to intentional violations. Disciplinary action for normal process variation, or a failure to error proof, would be counterproductive.

An inspector failing to catch a bad part is a far different thing than an inspector deliberatly putting failed parts in the conforming bin.
 

SteelMaiden

Super Moderator
Super Moderator
#6
Lots of good points here. What really caught my eye were the actions "retrain" and "revise". If you are seeing actions like this, you may need to further your investigation. Lots of actions to retrain may point to the cause that you are not training people well initially. Same thing with revise SOP. That makes one wonder if the SOPs are written correctly to begin with, and if further training needs to be done on how to develope SOPs that are correct from the beginning.

I agree with the "willfully did not follow directions" for discipline, but you also need to look at people who may "miss an inspection" a little too often. That may not be readily apparent as a willfull violation, but on closer look that person may be letting things go due to laziness, lack of committal, whatever vs. "I have too many things to look at, and so I am going to miss some."

Discipline is a tough thing and can work against you instead of for you. But, it is necessary to hold people accountable for that which they are responsible.
 

Jen Kirley

Quality and Auditing Expert
Staff member
Admin
#7
The subject has been energetically discussed in threads like this one: Internal Audit finding leading to 'Punishment' (Disciplinary Action).

The answer is a maddingly nebulous "maybe."

  • Maybe he/she will be more careful next time.
  • Maybe he/she will take the job more seriously.
  • Maybe he/she will get lucky.
  • Maybe he/she will boot the person who really was responsible but not recognized as such.
  • Maybe he/she will in effect do every job twice, like Santa checks his list twice, taking more time but you wanted it done right, yes?
Then again, maybe not. Maybe yes for a time, but eventually not because the problem was never really fixed. For discipline to work, the issue needs to be one of intent and complete capability and readiness. In other words, intent needs to be pretty well isolated as the true cause.

I talked about this in a White Paper Following Procedures awhile back.
 

Sidney Vianna

Post Responsibly
Staff member
Admin
#8
For example, it seems convenient that corrective actions become blame oriented. Things like "retrain operators", "discipline operators", "revise SOP" and the like may prevent digging deeper.
That is correct. It is much easier to identify operator error as the cause of the problem, instead of asking a few more probing questions to identify the real system shortcomings that allow for operators to make so many and frequent mistakes.

Remember Deming's message Drive out fear? And the ISO 9000 principle # 3, involvement of people?
 
M

Mules

#9
Does anyone have any experience with communicating and applying a policy of granting "amnesty" to operators following an incident. This "immunity" takes place as long as the employee(s) involved in an issue become stakeholders in fixing the problem. They would have to proactively report the issue, participate in the root cause analysis, and help to propose and reinforce solutions? The upside to this approach seems to be that it could reduce people's fears and lead to prompt reporting of incidents and possibly lead to greater involvement. On the other hand, it seems if you use discipline you wind up with a disgruntled employee and may discourage reporting? I guess this is the classic, what's better the carrot or the stick? Do you think this amnesty approach is useful and have you or your company used this?
 

Caster

An Early Cover
Trusted Information Resource
#10
In my experience when someone does not follow procedures, it pays to look at their boss or their bosses boss.

Most often I hear "they " told me to do it. The "they" who told them often takes great care to cover their tracks and will deny it when confronted.

So what would happen if the progressive discipline was focused on the boss, instead of the worker?

Tremendous pressure to circumvent the system is brought to bear when there is a perceived urgency or crisis. It takes strong leadership to stay the course.
 
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