Does IATF 16949:2016 Clause 7.3 (now 8.3) Apply to "Grandfathered" Products

D

Dan M

Involved In Discussions
#1
#1
We have a number of products that were designed 10-20+ years ago before ISO/TS was in place. The products are going to be transferred to a new modernized production facility that will soon be audited for IATF 16949. The products were originally designed for industrial applications then at some point in time marketed for automotive application but continued to be manufactured at the original plant. In most instances, the automotive customers, at the time, were not prescriptive about ISO/TS or APQP. In transitioning these products, we are reviewing the customer requirements manuals and learning that many of the customers will require formal notification before we make this change to the manufacturing facility. We will have to go through a PPAP process with many of the customers.


These are automotive fluids so the designs consist of raw materials, formulations, manufacturing instructions, and equipment. Because this is a new facility with new/modernized equipment I can see where R&D will need to work with manufacturing to tweak the process based on the new equipment. Will our R&D group be required to go through an exercise to repeat the design work to demonstrate the designs were done according to IATF 16949 and APQP or can we state that the products were grandfathered from earlier design projects?
 
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Stijloor

Stijloor

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Super Moderator
#2
#2
Dan M said:
We have a number of products that were designed 10-20+ years ago before ISO/TS was in place. The products are going to be transferred to a new modernized production facility that will soon be audited for IATF 16949. The products were originally designed for industrial applications then at some point in time marketed for automotive application but continued to be manufactured at the original plant. In most instances, the automotive customers, at the time, were not prescriptive about ISO/TS or APQP. In transitioning these products, we are reviewing the customer requirements manuals and learning that many of the customers will require formal notification before we make this change to the manufacturing facility. We will have to go through a PPAP process with many of the customers.


These are automotive fluids so the designs consist of raw materials, formulations, manufacturing instructions, and equipment. Because this is a new facility with new/modernized equipment I can see where R&D will need to work with manufacturing to tweak the process based on the new equipment. Will our R&D group be required to go through an exercise to repeat the design work to demonstrate the designs were done according to IATF 16949 and APQP or can we state that the products were grandfathered from earlier design projects?
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These products look like "Bulk Materials" to me. Have you talked to your automotive Customers about these? (The AIAG PPAP Manual has particular requirements for Bulk Materials).
 
G

Golfman25

Trusted Information Resource
#3
#3
Get ready for a world of hurt. But the best thing is to work with your current customers to limit as much pain as possible. You want to try to negotiate a "low level" PPAP and revise the design documentation as applicable. Good luck.
 
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Dan M

Involved In Discussions
#4
#4
Stijloor said:
These products look like "Bulk Materials" to me. Have you talked to your automotive Customers about these? (The AIAG PPAP Manual has particular requirements for Bulk Materials).
Click to expand...
It seems to me that the customers' requirements will determine the level of design documentation that will be needed?
 
Stijloor

Stijloor

Staff member
Super Moderator
#5
#5
Dan M said:
It seems to me that the customers' requirements will determine the level of design documentation that will be needed?
Click to expand...
True, but if you don't ask, you will not know. I've been in the automotive (consulting-training) business ~30 years, and it always amazes me what open and honest communication can do. :agree1:
 
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