Does ISO 9001 require Supplier Pre-Qualification?

K

kgott

#1
Hi all; Im involved in discussions about pre-qualification of suppliers.
I'm being told we have to pre-qualify our suppliers and I have to come up with some criteria for pre-qualifcation.

My view is that pre-qualification takes place when suppliers complete the forms required by finance to get paid and they then go on the suppliers list maintained by finance.

I am saying that evulation of suppliers takes place after they have been engaged and are on the job suppling goods and services and yes; we have must a criteria for evaluating them but this does not need to be documented by the standard but perhaps its useful to do so in a project plan or in the quality manual to please the customer.

I am also saying that we maintain records of evulation through the project or work scope closure report.

The standard states:

The organization shall evaluate and select suppliers based on their ability to supply product in accordance with the organization's requirements. Criteria for selection, evaluation and re-evaluation shall be established. Records of the results of evaluations and any necessary actions arising from the evaluation shall be maintained


Am I right?
 
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Marcelo

Inactive Registered Visitor
#2
Am I right?
No.

Every qualification requirement of the standard (process, human resources, physical resources, suppliers, equipment, documentation, etc. - let´s call them resources in general) is there because the idea is that you can only use the resources that you verified that will fulfill the objectives they are defined to.

In the case of suppliers, you need to make sure that they can " product in accordance with the organization's requirements" before buying from them, otherwise you cannot buy from them.
 

Randy

Super Moderator
#3
Do you see prequalification in the requirement you posted?

If you do then it has to be done

If you don't then it doesn't have to be done


Back off a bit because you're digging too deep and making it way too complicated.
 
K

kgott

#4
Thanks for your comments Marcello, I appreciate that every organisation has 'reasons' for using a particular supplier and my employer 'pre-qualified' me in the form of an interview but pre-qualification as its currently done anyway, involves having a stated criteria which involves sending the supplier a questionnaire etc etc.

Most people have list of criteria but every organisation also uses criteria that’s not stated. E.g. if a subcontractor punched the boss in the face they would be thrown out immediately but this criteria is not stated in their selection criteria as are many other criteria that is unofficially used.

I can see the point in inserting a sentence like ‘ suppliers are selected on a range of criteria that usually includes availability, familiarity with the project, previous history and price’ into the quality manual but I don’t see any point in formal pre-qualification as its all too often practiced. I have seen a supplier fail the pre-qualification criteria but they get used anyway because they are the sole supplier in town. It just makes a nonsense of the whole thing.

Moreover, I don’t see from the requirement from the standard below that records of pre-qualification have to be kept, or have I got the wrong idea altogether?

The organization shall evaluate and select suppliers based on their ability to supply product in accordance with the organization's requirements. Criteria for selection, evaluation and re-evaluation shall be established. Records of the results of evaluations and any necessary actions arising from the evaluation shall be maintained
 
K

kgott

#5
Do you see prequalification in the requirement you posted?.

yes and I reckon the registration process is the prequalification.

Back off a bit because you're digging too deep and making it way too complicated.

I'm fighting this battle with some powers that be Randy because if I lose I'll end up doing something simply because 'that’s what everyone else does' and I want something closer to best practice here not something closer to a 'me too' company that makes us indistinguishable from any other company.
 

Golfman25

Trusted Information Resource
#6
You simply have to be able to answer the question: Is the supplier able to supply the product needed in accordance with our requirements? The answer will vary based upon the product and what your requirements are. Selection of some suppliers might be relatively straight forward -- like they where the only guy in town. Some might need a lot more evaluation. Trying to create some all encompasing criteria will probably lead to problems. I think you take it on a case by case basis. Good luck.
 

Marcelo

Inactive Registered Visitor
#7
Okay, let'ssee if I can make myself somewhat more clear.

A purchased product is a resource you need to use in a process of your system.

The standard requires that you define (determine) the resource needed for the processes (implement and maintain blah blah blah).

So, when you are bying something, you need to know beforehand what it is, meaning, what are the requirements (need or expectation that is stated, generally implied or obligatory) for this product you need to obtain so that you can run your process.

The standard requires that you evaluate and select suppliers "based on their ability to supply product in accordance with the organization's requirements", meaning, using the requirements for the product that you defined the resource, you need to make sure that the supplier can provide you a product in conformance with those requirements, and if after evaluation it's founthat he does, you then can select it and begin using it.

Why all this?

If you do not define your resource (requirements for the product), you do not know what you need to get in order for your process to run. So you can't buy.

If you do not evaluate the supplier before using it, you may obtain non-conforming supply, which means your process cannot run or will run but won't obtain the required results.


involves having a stated criteria which involves sending the supplier a questionnaire etc etc.
This is not what is required by the standard. A "questionaire" which has nothing to do with the requirements for the resource you need is not in conformance with the standard.

Each supplier should be evaluated based on what it's supplying , meaning, if 10 different suppliers are supplying 10 different products, you would need to have 10 different set of requirements that each supplier would have to fulfill.

I don’t see any point in formal pre-qualification as its all too often practiced. I have seen a supplier fail the pre-qualification criteria but they get used anyway because they are the sole supplier in town.
Again, this is not what is required by the standard.

In those two cases, you are saying that what people is doing is not value added. You are right, but what you might be wrong is thinking that what people is doing is in conformance with the standard. It's not.

Another point to keep in mind is that standards are created to companies which wants to follow them. If a company does not, there's nothing a standard (which is a piece of paper :)) can do.

And this also means that yes, people can get cerificates even not being in conformity...nothing new here.

Moreover, I don’t see from the requirement from the standard below that records of pre-qualification have to be kept, or have I got the wrong idea altogether?

The organization shall evaluate and select suppliers based on their ability to supply product in accordance with the organization's requirements. Criteria for selection, evaluation and re-evaluation shall be established. Records of the results of evaluations and any necessary actions arising from the evaluation shall be maintained
You need to record the evaluation of the supplier. If you want to call it qualification, as I said before, no problem, but this is the evaluation that the standard requires and need to be recorded. Why? Well, records have a very direct objective in the ISO 9000 series of standards - they were created as part of the auditing requirement - in which you need to "prove" that you did something. The gneral idea is that you define which requirements are needed for you processes, however in some cases, the standard directly requires come records. This is such a case. There's no objective in recording the evaluation than to have a verifiable evidence that you did it.
 

Marcelo

Inactive Registered Visitor
#8
Regarding my last thoughts on records from the last post, please note that ISO 9001 coould have no procedure nor record requirement. It "should" let all decisions regarding those for the company implementing it. However, due to a lot of reasons (for example, a biggggg discussion in the committee which writes the standard) there's still some required documents and a lot of required records.
 

somashekar

Staff member
Super Moderator
#9
Thanks for your comments Marcello, I appreciate that every organisation has 'reasons' for using a particular supplier and my employer 'pre-qualified' me in the form of an interview but pre-qualification as its currently done anyway, involves having a stated criteria which involves sending the supplier a questionnaire etc etc.

Most people have list of criteria but every organisation also uses criteria that’s not stated. E.g. if a subcontractor punched the boss in the face they would be thrown out immediately but this criteria is not stated in their selection criteria as are many other criteria that is unofficially used.

I can see the point in inserting a sentence like ‘ suppliers are selected on a range of criteria that usually includes availability, familiarity with the project, previous history and price’ into the quality manual but I don’t see any point in formal pre-qualification as its all too often practiced. I have seen a supplier fail the pre-qualification criteria but they get used anyway because they are the sole supplier in town. It just makes a nonsense of the whole thing.

Moreover, I don’t see from the requirement from the standard below that records of pre-qualification have to be kept, or have I got the wrong idea altogether?

The organization shall evaluate and select suppliers based on their ability to supply product in accordance with the organization's requirements. Criteria for selection, evaluation and re-evaluation shall be established. Records of the results of evaluations and any necessary actions arising from the evaluation shall be maintained
Dear kgott..
The Organization comes first, then the QMS fits to the organization. That is the very reason why the statement says " organization's requirements "
It will be wise if you consider all the organization's requirement along with the product and customer requirement into the evaluation and selection process and not use terms like Pre-qualification along with evaluation and selection.
Just evaluate and select based on your " Organization requirement "
Consider all such organization requirements.
Records of the results of evaluations and any necessary actions arising from the evaluation shall be maintained
Remember that these records need not all be at one place and is not an auditor's requirement first. It must first be organization's requirement.
If your corporate policy is not to buy parts from supplier's who employ child labor, this becomes an organization requirement.
If your finance department wants a particular registration with taxation department for all suppliers, this becomes an organization requirement.
See what else such requirements are within the organization. QMS is for the organization, and not the other way around ~~~
 
Last edited:
K

kgott

#10
Rightoh, no problem; I agree that we need to evaluate the suppliers capacity to deliver what we require from them and now I ahve some good reasons why.

As a reuslt of the points respondents have made, I certain that the pre-qualification of suppliers as intrepreted and applied by and for the big clients in the resource industry in this part of the world is definately not required by the standard but I suppose this is irrelevent.

thanks to all for your help - k
 
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