Interesting Discussion Does Lean hold the key to success? Is Lean the ideal vehicle for moving forward?

Z

zaid_iec

#61
I would like to say, Continuous Improvement is the key to success. You call it Lean, Six Sigma or Lean Sigma, QAP or anything. As long as the concept is finding opportunities for improvement and doing it, it will lead to success.

Regards
Mohammad
 
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J

Julie O

#62
I don't see how "Quality is not a department" equates to not having a Quality Department. I'm inclined to think this perspective is a result of poor implementation of a good idea, where, instead of deciding that this wasn't a good way to implement a good idea and we need to find a better way, the decision was made that this wasn't a good idea after all, so we should just forget it. This seems to be splitting hairs (or some better metaphor I can't think of right now):

The Quality Manager should be the one who provides training on the use of quality tools to every employee, as well as being available to aid in the selection and facilitation in the use of these tools.

versus

The Quality Department should be the one who provides training on the use of quality tools to every employee, as well as being available to aid in the selection and facilitation in the use of these tools.

If a company doesn't understand Quality well enough to implement a Quality Department that does the above, I find it unlikely that it understands it well enough to implement it with a single individual, either.
 
J

Julie O

#63
I'm inclined to think Lean is one of those fads that has now been so folded, spindled, and mutilated that it is impossible to provide a meaningful answer to this question. Or to say much of anything meaningful about Lean at all.
 

Bev D

Heretical Statistician
Staff member
Super Moderator
#64
Hi Julie and welcome to the cove :bigwave:

I would refer you back to your post on Quality departments just before this last one on Lean. Yes, Lean has been folded spindled and mutilated by hacks and afficionados of the latest fad, but that doesn't mean that Lean isn't a good idea or that there aren't any good practitioners or teachers out there. I have experienced many very effective implementations of Lean including the one at my current organization. If one wants to really implement good ideas (like a quality department for example) one has to search out good examples and good trainers and good learning resources. It takes time and effeort but it's well worth it.

I have seen Lean empower and engage almost every individual in the organization in continual improvement, improving morale as well as profit, delivery and quality. I have nothing that isn't meaningful to say about it. I would recommend you take a second look...
 
J

Julie O

#65
My point is that when you say "Lean" is a good idea, no one has any way of knowing what idea you are referring to (ie what you MEAN), because "Lean" has been so thoroughly reinterpreted to be all things to all people, or, perhaps more accurately, to be whatever the person interpreting it wants it to be...cost-cutting, waste reduction, problem-solving, continuous improvement, JIT, TPS...often with the goal of doing whatever they wanted to do in the first place, however they wanted to do it, and still be able to wave the Lean flag over it.
 

Bev D

Heretical Statistician
Staff member
Super Moderator
#66
OK valid point - if you have not been exposed 'true lean' then you wouldn't know what Lean means and you would be confused.

LEAN as created by Toyota, adopted by Honda and 'americanized' by James Womack et al (in the machine that changed the world) is an approach to processes that gradually reduces the cycle time of producing a product or service that is valuable to the Customer by reducing waste. (It's opposite traditional manufacturing increases waste ostensibly to protect the producer from 'unpredictable obstacles such as poor quality and uneven order quantities).

Lean - or the Toyota Production System (TPS) - uses 'tools' such as the 5 whys, kanbans, visual workplace, 5S, mmistake proofing, Total Preventive Maintenance (TPM), Kaizan (rapid small improvements), Gemba or waste walks, daily huddle / metric boards,etc. to expose and eliminate waste. JIT - or just in time - is an old phrase that attempted to characterize the Toyota Production System rather unsuccessfully and it came from a deep misunderstanding of TPS.
The result of waste reduction is a reduction in cost. A true Lean deployment never starts by targeting cost reduction - that is a road to ruin. cost reduction is a result not a knob. Quality improvement is an essential 'knob' element of TPS and therefore 'problem solving' and 'continual improvement' are essential methods employed by a lean organization.

Like many things that are corrupted by hacks and fly-by-night hucksters, Lean is far more complicated in its simplicity than they would have you believe. before we dismiss something out of hand perhaps we should attempt to understand the true thing and not its cheap knock-offs? I understand the visceral reaction to trash something that you have found to be false or misleading or otherwise worthless - but please know that you are trashing the thing you have experienced that was masquerading as lean and not lean itself.
 
J

Julie O

#67
you are trashing the thing you have experienced that was masquerading as lean and not lean itself.
I'm not trashing either Lean or that which masquerades as Lean. I'm making the simple observation that there is now so much masquerading that any question asked about Lean is likely to get answered based as much or more on the masquerades as the true thing, and therefore will not be a meaningful answer.
 

Jen Kirley

Quality and Auditing Expert
Staff member
Admin
#68
I'm not trashing either Lean or that which masquerades as Lean. I'm making the simple observation that there is now so much masquerading that any question asked about Lean is likely to get answered based as much or more on the masquerades as the true thing, and therefore will not be a meaningful answer.
I agree with this. It doesn't help that post-secondary education too often doesn't include the subjects so business and Organizational Leadership degree candidates (I finished my MSOL program a few years ago) don't receive an in-depth coverage of the subjects. We do, however have the required finance classes to teach us what goes where on the balance sheet - we just don't leave with a full appreciation of what impacts those numbers. Our Western society's failure to build an appreciation pf why things go well (or not), aka Quality, is at the root of much of our failings.
Just my :2cents:
 

Bev D

Heretical Statistician
Staff member
Super Moderator
#70
I'm not trashing either Lean or that which masquerades as Lean. I'm making the simple observation that there is now so much masquerading that any question asked about Lean is likely to get answered based as much or more on the masquerades as the true thing, and therefore will not be a meaningful answer.
I think that you will find that the people here at the cove will answer questions based on the reality of what Lean is and not on the fake stuff. the same goes for SPC, Acceptance sampling, ISO, FMEA, Quality management, Auditing, Problem Solving, etc. we will in fact give you meaningful and useful answers...
 
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