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Does the age of the lead auditor matter in QMS audits ?

eternal_atlas

Involved In Discussions
#1
:confused: One External Auditor with the age of 31 came for an audit. He is very professional. I never see such an auditor style even from the experienced auditor.

In short,he added some value to the audit where our experienced people does not agree on that.. Reason you know very well.. Resistance.. How come a 30 can advise or audit 60 ?

Everyone in the top is having an image of auditor is of age atleast above 45 and must have good industrial experience. say for example.. To audit a QMS hospital a senior doctor should come.. To audit a mechanical industry, an auditor with mechanical engineering experience is must..

After the audit, my management called me not to invite such type of auditors . Reasons is as follows. We should maintain the image when we are auditing the senior persons..

My opinion is : ISO is a management standard. The auditor should have auditing experience ,aware of ISO clauses,good attributes,a good knowledge of the business process to be audited.. these are more than enough to audit the QMS, No need of QC - Mechanical Engineer with Lead Auditor Experience shall do the audit of mechanical works..

I need your comments..
 
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A

amanbhai

#2
Re: Is it Age of the lead auditor matters to audit QMS?

This is exactly the case happned only yesterday.
Manager experince 25 years whereas, the auditor age in the visicnity of 31 years roughly. :bigwave:
 

charanjit singh

Involved In Discussions
#3
Re: Is it Age of the lead auditor matters to audit QMS?

I entirely agree with the point regarding the age of the auditor. What matters is the in-depth knowldge and understanding of the requirements.I have seen auditors of 45 highly qualified yet 'bookish' with an 'I know better than you all' attitude. I have also seen an auditor of 29 years age yet with maturity and good grasp of the requirements. The former was an M.Tech in the same field as the client industry (mechanical engineering) while the latter was a Computer Applications qualifed and not an engineer.

Having said so I also think some useful experience in the industry/enterprise under audit is very necessary for the auditor (irrespective of his/her age) though there could be some intelligent people who have learnt the ropes from books/literature or from forums like this one.

Jupitor
 

Ajit Basrur

Staff member
Admin
#4
Hi Suresh Kumar,

I have slightly modified the title of your thread - pls let me know if its fine with you.

I am enclosing the Job posting for 3 Lead Auditors Required for Oil and Gas Company in Saudi Arabia - is it not strange that they want 25 year old Lead auditors :D

Your management needs to be mature enough to understand that age is no longer a criteria for certain things. Its true that auditing matures with experience but it does not mean that all 25 year old or 30 year old youngsters do not have knowledge :)
 
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J

joshua_sx1

#5
...and besides, although the standard mentioned about the minimum educational attainment requirements (which can be related to minimum age), the standards does not relied on “age” but on the competence level of the auditor i.e. the ability to apply the knowledge and skills gained through the education, work experience, auditor training and audit experiences…

…well, you cannot really avoid this kind of “judgmental” thing… but as long as the auditor is meeting the minimum requirements of the standard, there is nothing ethically wrong, when a 31 year old auditor is auditing a 50+ year old manager…

…it’s only in the mind of an egoistic person…

:2cents:
 

eternal_atlas

Involved In Discussions
#6
Hi Suresh Kumar,

I have slightly modified the title of your thread - pls let me know if its fine with you.

I am enclosing the Job posting for 3 Lead Auditors Required for Oil and Gas Company in Saudi Arabia - is it not strange that they want 25 year old Lead auditors :D

Your management needs to be mature enough to understand that age is no longer a criteria for certain things. Its true that auditing matures with experience but it does not mean that all 25 year old or 30 year old youngsters do not have knowledge :)
Dear Ajith,

Thanks for your modification which sounds good.. the example you quoted is a nice one.. its a eyeopener for the experts of white hair sitting at the top.. but anyway, we have to live with type of resistance wherever you goes and whenever u try to change the people of doing work.. i had a good experience in dealing with this high profile people in my career..

I used to quote those people as an examples whenever i do the awareness programme on QMS..

Once again, thanks for your comments..
 
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S

SAGHIR AHMED

#7
Will revert

:confused: One external auditor with the age of 31 came for an audit. He is very professional. I never see such an auditor style even from the experienced auditor.

In short,he added some value to the audit where our experienced people does not agree on that.. Reason you know very well.. Resistance.. How come a 30 can advise or audit 60 ?

Everyone in the top is having an image of auditor is of age atleast above 45 and must have good industrial experience. Say for example.. To audit a qms hospital a senior doctor should come.. To audit a mechanical industry, an auditor with mechanical engineering experience is must..

After the audit, my management called me not to invite such type of auditors . Reasons is as follows. We should maintain the image when we are auditing the senior persons..

My opinion is : Iso is a management standard. The auditor should have auditing experience ,aware of iso clauses,good attributes,a good knowledge of the business process to be audited.. These are more than enough to audit the qms, no need of qc - mechanical engineer with lead auditor experience shall do the audit of mechanical works..

I need your comments..
 
#8
In short,he added some value to the audit where our experienced people does not agree on that.. Reason you know very well.. Resistance.. How come a 30 can advise or audit 60 ?
While life experience undoubtedly is a factor to consider, there is no age requirement, of course.

It is also a question of perspective: In a previous orgainzation which I left over 15 years ago (which would place me in roughly the same age bracket as the auditor in your example), I was considered "old", and was in fact sometimes refered to as "the old guy" :D. Today, 15+ years on, I work for an organization with a much higher average age, and yes: I am considered to be quite young by our standards. :lol:. Fortunately we are now having a generation shift with a number of people retiering and new truly young people entering the fray every year... About time too: That young image of mine will not hold up for closer scrutiny much longer. :cool:

Anyway: It is all about competence, not age.

/Claes
 
J

John Nabors - 2009

#9
Just my :2cents:..

Many years ago, my Dad (now happliy retired) and I worked together for a military / aerospace contractor. He was the toolmaker / machinist with about a million years of experience, I was the new quality kid on the block with much less experience but a decent education in the latest and greatest methods. As a team we were darn near unbeatable when it came to problem solving.

Don't discount the value of a younger person with a fresh education and a younger person's sense of innovation, but also don't discount an older, more experienced person's wisdom. If you must choose between the two, you won't go wrong with either choice but in my humble opinion, the best choice is a situation where there is teambuilding between both sorts.

Now I am the semi-old guy who knows I still have plenty to learn from the new kids even as I teach them the meager bits I have learned.
 
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