Does the Head of the Department being audited have the right to amend audit report?

J

JaneB

#11
Re: Does the person been audited have the right ro amend audit report?

Tricky question, and not one with a simple Yes/No answer, as various people have written. And one that's very hard to answer without seeing the exact wording of what was written, and what was proposed in response. For example, some organisations have certain 'trigger words' that get people's hackles up. I'm usually happy to revise perhaps or certainly reword an audit report in that case, to get to something we can both agree on.

I used to think no manager ever had the right to request changes to an internal audit report, but I changed my mind on that a long time ago. I often send a 'draft report' to a manager and invite their feedback. My view in the case of an adverse finding (eg, nonconformity) is that they may not like the finding, but they should not be able to refute it provided that it is: written clearly, objectively and you must have adequate and reasonable objective evidence from which to draw that conclusion. If they provide further evidence, I'm willing to consider it, because perhaps I missed it before or misunderstood.

After all, as Helmut says:

there is little point in writing a bunch of stuff that has not been discussed or agreed upon. This is not something the auditor does to the auditee, this is a process of finding problems and improvements.
And nothing can damage that process more than an audit process gone wrong. It does sound as though this one has.

In the report we stated a few suggestions for improvement to the department. ?
Is it possible these were perceived badly?
With internal audit reports, I always tread very, very, very delicately with 'suggestions for improvement'. They could be interpreted by a manager as being told how to do his job/run her department and managers don't - not surprisingly!- like being told this. (Auditors might not like being told how they should audit, for example).

If I do have suggestions I am careful to word them as that, and propose that the manager 'consider' an idea.

Anyway, the manager read the report and rejected it with the reason we did not conveye the exact audit findings in the report.
Is he right? Did the report convey the exact findings accurately? Because if not, I'd argue back too.

Initially he has already admittedthe audit findings verbally in the audit. But he insisted we do not add it into the report because it might cause trouble to him.
Different people often recall different things in a conversation. What were the findings? How much did his suggested alteration change things?

If he's asking you to withhold or alter real findings, I'd disagree. Again, provided you are accurately reflecting findings and drawing reasonable conclusions.

The audit team has formed by employee which not really as proffesional as we thought of.
I"m not sure of your meaning here - are the internal auditors competent? Trained? Experienced?

The internal quality auditor just report as what we found.
Perhaps. But again, it really does sound as though the process has degenerated into a 'who's right/wrong' argument, which neither side will win.
I've had to make some very difficult audit calls in my time and deliver some audit reports with very adverse findings with a very hostile manager disputing them. I've found that provided I followed an agreed and fair & documented process, and provided that my findings were objectively reported and impartial, the manager was unable to argue back about the findings. Whether they liked it or not is something else.

If a report really does accurately and objectively report a true situation, then yes, it's management's decision up the line what to do. But I'd certainly want to be sure all MY bases were covered before digging in for a 'showdown at the OK corral'... and overall, it's infinitely more effective and useful to look for an outcome that stays focussed on the real goal: improvement (not who's right/wrong).
 
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A

amanbhai

#12
Re: Does the Head of the Department being audited have the right to amend audit repor

What happen when an auditor has a mandate from upper management. Auditor or MR conducts the audit, prepare a report with the auditee & raise the points which help the department to improve effectiveness & increase productivity. But when manager read the report & outrightly change it although he agrees that the points raised are important, there is a lacking, there is an opperthnity for improvement.
 
M

Marcus CLF

#13
Re: Does the person been audited have the right ro amend audit report?

Marcus - you response doesn't fill me with confidence that the audit went at all well. From what you've written, I could infer that it was a poorly conducted audit and that the auditor is adopting the position of 'this is what we found, so it stays in the report', rather than both the auditor and auditee arriving at the end of the audit with a common understanding of what was found.

For our information, was the audit done in a colaborative manner? Why do you feel the manager should have to provide evidence to justify their position? Did the auditor not gather sufficient information to support the audit findings?
FYI, our auditor may not be well trained enough, but they do know the objective of doing the audit. Some auditee may tend to take it for granted for the unexperience internal quality auditor. I think the company won't beproud of it. The function of internal quality auditing is tend to improve and maintain the current system. You may be able to cover it internally, but when the is an audit by third party or customer, everything will be unveiled. Thereafter, we will know who is the winner.:cool:
 

Jen Kirley

Quality and Auditing Expert
Staff member
Admin
#14
Re: Does the person been audited have the right ro amend audit report?

FYI, our auditor may not be well trained enough, but they do know the objective of doing the audit. Some auditee may tend to take it for granted for the unexperience internal quality auditor. I think the company won't beproud of it. The function of internal quality auditing is tend to improve and maintain the current system. You may be able to cover it internally, but when the is an audit by third party or customer, everything will be unveiled. Thereafter, we will know who is the winner.:cool:
Inexperience is a problem, and everyone is bound to recognize that. I suggest the inexperienced auditor's findings and report be reviewed by the audit team, or the auditor's manager at least.

An auditor may respond to this involvement in various ways. It is the audit team/manager's responsibility to make it clear the auditor has the team's trust. However, issues could be discussed among the group ("Has anyone else found this?"), the choice of CAPA/observation can be agreed upon, and the report's language can be tweaked for clarity and maximum effectiveness.

This sounds like a lot of tiptoeing around, doesn't it? Well, I can vouch that it has helped me to be able to say to the CAPA owner, "These audit reports always get reviewed by the team. It's not just me." Any sense of a maverick approach can be avoided this way.

Now I will be less gentle. Inexperienced auditors, and also seasoned auditors new to that organization, need supervision. Do this and you can more readily decide if the management is being unsupporting, or if they have a legitimate concern that needs addressing.

:2cents:
 
J

jackvanderhout

#15
Re: Does the Head of the Department being audited have the right to amend audit repor

We experienced also some reluctancy during an internal audit. In fact, it has already been stated, auditees should not see the audit as a kind of examination. It is the sytem to be improved. I agree that an internal auditor must have consideration with over-responsible managers. Otherwise it will end up in a mess instead of improvements.
 
J

JaneB

#16
Re: Does the person been audited have the right ro amend audit report?

...we will know who is the winner.:cool:
Marcus, I get a rather bad feeling from some of the things you write. Audit is not, repeat not, about having 'winners' and thus also 'losers'.

Not at all.

To hold that kind of win/lose belief is a fundamental misunderstanding of audit, and I urge you in the strongest possible terms to re-examine that belief.

Inexperienced or untrained auditors (internal or external) can do great damage, even if they mean well, and even if they know 'the objective' of audit.

That's one reason why good CB's put a lot of effort into finding the right people and giving them the right training, and why any intelligent organisation similarly puts emphasis on having good internal auditors. As well as a good audit process. Which includes supervision of auditors.

Auditors - any auditor! needs supervision and oversight.
 
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