Does Training come under HR department?

A

abcauto

#11
Re: Training is falls in HR department?

Thanks for your reply.

Sir,
But what about the training records.Who is responsible for the systematic preservation of training record for the future references and for audit reference.

Thanks
ANAND
 
Elsmar Forum Sponsor
#12
Re: Training is falls in HR department?

Thanks for your reply.

Sir,
But what about the training records.Who is responsible for the systematic preservation of training record for the future references and for audit reference.

Thanks
ANAND
The key word in the standard is "appropriate". If I have 7 production employees, I probably don't need training records to tell me who is competent on a particular piece of equipment. So, how can I tell someone is competent? Simple. If an individual's normal production is acceptable, then I can call them competent. Having a driver's license does not make an individual a competent driver. Having a training record does not mean someone is competent. Only their work output will show competence.
 

hogheavenfarm

Quite Involved in Discussions
#13
DB - you still need evidence of competence of some type, say, a performance review or skills test. I dont see how an auditor would take your word that an employee was competent without some objective proof.
 
#14
DB - you still need evidence of competence of some type, say, a performance review or skills test. I dont see how an auditor would take your word that an employee was competent without some objective proof.
The unfortunate thing is, none of the items you list prove competence. Competence is defined as the demonstrated ability to apply knowledge and skills. What better proof of competence is there than records of acceptable performance. Also, don’t forget the key word is “appropriate”. You have to maintain appropriate records of training, skills, etc. Tests, performance reviews, attendance certificates are all examples of records. But none of them reflect competency. I submit that production records are the only true competency records. For it is the production record that shows competency.
 

hogheavenfarm

Quite Involved in Discussions
#15
Yes, that is what I'm getting at, some type of proof. Acceptable performance must be documented somehow also. You could tie in return and warranty data relating to the position, or something similar. My idea was that there must be something other than the manager telling me his people are competent. I want to know how he determines this.
 
#16
My typical client has an owner, and an office manager (quite often the owner's spouse). They have 7 production employees. Each employee is expected to perform all functions including quality and material handling.

In one case, I was brought in after a previous consultant wrote their QMS. It included the Vice President of Purchasing signing all PO's showing acceptance, and the Director of Personnel establishing and maintaining training records. That was stupid for such a small company. Unfortunately, many folks want to over control processes as if all companies had 3000 employees.

Do what makes sense for the size and type of company.
 

Marc

Hunkered Down for the Duration with a Mask on...
Staff member
Admin
#17
<snip> In one case, I was brought in after a previous consultant wrote their QMS. It included the Vice President of Purchasing signing all PO's showing acceptance, and the Director of Personnel establishing and maintaining training records. That was stupid for such a small company. Unfortunately, many folks want to over control processes as if all companies had 3000 employees. <snip>
This is typical when someone uses canned documentation (and who obviously doesn't know what they're doing) when doing an implementation.
 

Big Jim

Super Moderator
#18
My typical client has an owner, and an office manager (quite often the owner's spouse). They have 7 production employees. Each employee is expected to perform all functions including quality and material handling.

In one case, I was brought in after a previous consultant wrote their QMS. It included the Vice President of Purchasing signing all PO's showing acceptance, and the Director of Personnel establishing and maintaining training records. That was stupid for such a small company. Unfortunately, many folks want to over control processes as if all companies had 3000 employees.

Do what makes sense for the size and type of company.
Maintaining competency records isn't optional. There is a firm shall for it. 6.2.2e "maintain appropriate records of education, training, skills and experience".

If you want to be registered its one of the things you have to do.
 
#19
Maintaining competency records isn't optional. There is a firm shall for it. 6.2.2e "maintain appropriate records of education, training, skills and experience".

If you want to be registered its one of the things you have to do.
Once again, the key word is "appropriate". I am not saying you don't need records, I am saying that production records are the best record to prove competency. Somehow, somewhere folks get the impression that production records cannot be used to show competence. I ask for someone to show me a record that is clearer. If production records show both quantity and quality of work, then competence has been established.
 

Big Jim

Super Moderator
#20
Once again, the key word is "appropriate". I am not saying you don't need records, I am saying that production records are the best record to prove competency. Somehow, somewhere folks get the impression that production records cannot be used to show competence. I ask for someone to show me a record that is clearer. If production records show both quantity and quality of work, then competence has been established.
I'm always open to different ways to meet the requirements of the standard, but I'm struggling with how production records can be apporpriately used as records of education, training, skills, and experience. Can you elaborate?
 
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