Does Welding Equipment need or require Calibration

S

step30044

#21
I work for a third party cal lab and we calibrate a lot of load banks. Many companies are bound by ISO 17025 requirements to calibrate the load banks used to verify the voltage and current output of welding machines. We have to verify the voltage meter is reading correctly, and since we can only produce up to 100A of current accurately using a transconductance amplifier, we indirectly calibrate the current meter by determining the resistance of the current shunt, and then applying a millivolt signal to the current meter corresponding to what the predicted millivolt output would be across the shunt at larger currents according to Ohm's Law. Then we operational test it across the load elements (essentially a bank of resistive heating coils) just to make sure they are working properly and not burned open (happens not too infrequently).
Scoot I would suggest purchasing a 1000A current shunt and and connecting it in series with the welder and load bank. This would allow you to better compensate for the effects of temperature not seen at 100A.

Sorry Shane just read your response great minds think alike...................maybe lol

The local procedure / process will dictate if calibration is required.....If the process says set the voltage at a specified setting then calibration is probably going to be required. If the procedures says set the weld machine as required per the operator to achieve desired weld, then no calibration would be required.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Elsmar Forum Sponsor
K

kgott

#22
From an ex welder and now a QA bloke.

It depends on what your contract with your customer says if you have one. Go back to that as your starting point. You may even might like to check for some kind of statutory requirement for your product. Does it have to meet a national or instustry standard in your country.

In other words you have to first of all identify your customers needs, then requirements not specified by the customer which which are needed anyway eg statutory requirements. Then you define your own requirements. Then you define processes and documentes needed for the effective operation of the quality (welding) system.

If your customer requires you to use an approved welding procedure and approved welder pesonnel then you certianly will need to calibrate your machines.

Do you need to able prove the welding done met some kind of standard? Think about your own liability.

An earlier point about individual welding persons developing a feel for the right settings, this is spot on, but they also need to able to produce the goods when being put under the pump by a customer who may want to witness them doemonstraing their skills to perform a particular type/s of welds using specified settings. If your machines are out of adjustment your welders may suddenly find they can't meet the performance criteria for the weld you told your customer they can meet.

So; yes after visiting the documention and considering laibility exposures of your busienss, you may decide to get all your machines claibrated, have a dcoumented welding procedure approved by your customer or a staturory authority/ industry body etc and have your welding staff approved to weld to that procedure by an indpendent welding inspection service who is accredited to a national standard, industry body or whoever.

Even your customer might test and approve your documents and welding staff themselves.

Don't over do it if you dont need to but make sure you can prove every claim you made to your customer if needed.

hope this helps

PM me if you want.

cheers
 
#23
I believe that the crux of the portion of ISO 9001:2008 that this situation deals with is "Where necessary to ensure valid results, measuring equipment shall . . . "

Does the welding equipment need to be calibrated to ensure valid results? I'm sure the answer is "it depends".

Welding is usually a "special process", so it usually needs to be validated. There are many ways to accomplish this, again, depending on circumstances. The most common method of validating welding is to certify the person doing the welding, or "qualification of personnel".

Using calibrated welding equipment falls more into the category of "approval of equipment" or of "use of specific methods and procedures".
I'm not sure that this is a 7.6 issue. As you mentioned welding is a special process. I think the answer is more related to that or even 7.5.1 c). Do we calibrate the movement of cnc mills based on 7.6? We could go nuts if we attempt to apply 7.6 to anything that has a meter, gauge or digital readout. But if the readouts are incorrect, we could have nonconforming product.

Now, i realize that I am referring to ISO 9001 and this is a 17025 thread, but I think the issue is ISO 9001 and maintenance, not measurement.
 

BradM

Staff member
Admin
#24
My mom's family is second generation welders, as they were all pipeliners.
If I had went to them on the job and told them their equipment had to be calibrated, it would have not went very well. :tg:

Their response would have been something like...
:lol:

or even :lmao::lmao:

:)

All joking aside, I believe that the need to calibrate welding equipment should be the decision of the user, especially if they are certified. If the process is being "validated" so to speak at the weld, then I would not see what value would come out of calibrating everything in sight. All the welders I have been around are experts; they adjust the equipment to what they need to achieve the desired results.

Ya'll know me, I calibrate everything I see. :tg::D But it needs to make sense. If people using the welding equipment sees no value in calibrating the instruments, then I don't think it would be needed.
 
#25
And you can understand peoples' confusion, Brad, when in other threads folks have gone off on a bizarre diatribe about needing to calibrate soldering irons...DOH!:rolleyes:
 
T

TamTom

#26
Hey Guys,

I see it as you do, welders are specialists and know what they do, but if you have a semi-automated process, where the welder can not influence every parameter, it must be sure, that the parameters tested in the validation are ok. As mentioned before we need to calibrate our machines every 6 month to fulfill the french nuclear power rules.
Now we have done this the 3 time, and every time the equipment need readjustment and maintenance steps to be calibrated. Under this aspect if you are not sur and have also an quality issue with your welding results it is worth a second look, to calibrate them.

Greetings,

TamTom
 
B

BASAVARAJ KARANING

#27
Calibration of welding machine is required because how much current is supplied by machine while welding and even though it is not useful for welder while welding & he can not see also.

For required to satisfy auditors ..... At least.......,
 
K

kgott

#28
Hey Guys,

I see it as you do, welders are specialists and know what they do, but if you have a semi-automated process, where the welder can not influence every parameter ...

TamTom
In my last position I saw a welding procedure where even the shade of lens in the welding shield was specified. This came from some Standard, cant rembember if it was a national or ISO standard. This kind of slavish compliance to standards can be uncessarily breaucratic in terms of its application, hinder performance and even cause injury to health of the operator. Common sense has to prevail, Every welders eyes are different.

I always selected own shade of lens which was whatever made the sun appear as a round disc when I looked at the sun through the lens. If it had streaks comming off the sun it was too light. If the sun's appearance was dull it was too dark. This rule of thumb worked a treat for 20 years of welding career.

I was given this tip when I was a first year apprentice in 1969.
 
D

Darrell B

#29
Is the welding being performed to a WPS? If so, there will be a range of acceptable amperage, feed speed, gas flow, etc. How can you tell if the work is being performed in the required range if the machine is not calibrated?

Yes, any welder worth his salt can see and hear when the machine is running well- but they must operate within the published range for the particular weld procedure.
 

consuleu

Starting to get Involved
#30
The welding machines or apparatus for sure need calibration and tests.

This is under the ISO 17662:2016 standard (Welding -- Calibration, verification and validation of equipment used for welding, including ancillary activities) and the norms reference is clear for what is needed to be controlled and measured.There are clear requirements about calibration, valuation and verification of welding equipment.
 
Thread starter Similar threads Forum Replies Date
H Does Welding of the Metal Housings for Audio Equipment Need Validation? ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 3
lanley liao Does all of the suppliers need to integrated into the supplier list qualified of the company? Oil and Gas Industry Standards and Regulations 2
0 To which part of 13485 does this refer? ISO 13485:2016 - Medical Device Quality Management Systems 3
A Medical Device Contract Manufacturer - Does the CM need to register with FDA? 21 CFR Part 820 - US FDA Quality System Regulations (QSR) 3
J Records Control - Does each individual record need to be numbered? Records and Data - Quality, Legal and Other Evidence 2
lanley liao Does the customer`s trademark belong to customer-supplied property? Oil and Gas Industry Standards and Regulations 2
H How does a gas turbine work on diesel fuel? Oil and Gas Industry Standards and Regulations 12
G What does performance specification include? US Food and Drug Administration (FDA) 1
W Where does a coatings and paint company fall in IATF? IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 5
A How much does a complete biocompatibility test package cost? Other ISO and International Standards and European Regulations 1
B Does anybody know how to get older versions of Minitab to work in Windows 10? Quality Tools, Improvement and Analysis 9
M Does the ISO 9001:2015 standard require a disaster recovery plan or emergency response plan ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 16
C Does an accessory need an IFU if it use is discussed in the Parent device IFU? 21 CFR Part 820 - US FDA Quality System Regulations (QSR) 5
S How long does it take to register a product with MHRA? UK Medical Device Regulations 3
M Quality Manual - Where does Revision History Section go? Document Control Systems, Procedures, Forms and Templates 8
U Does *anyone* know a lab that will test to EN 455-4 Medical Gloves shelf life determination? EU Medical Device Regulations 1
A Brexit When does the UK responsible person need to be in place? UK Medical Device Regulations 10
M How does IEC-60601-1 apply to a non-medical device in the patient vicinity? IEC 60601 - Medical Electrical Equipment Safety Standards Series 1
N Does anyone have experience of GB/T 34986-2017? China Medical Device Regulations 1
Z Does anyone have experience with EN ISO 17664 ? IEC 62366 - Medical Device Usability Engineering 9
F Does anyone have an ESD quality/cooler talk to share? Training - Internal, External, Online and Distance Learning 4
A What does this line from MDCG 2020-3 (MDR art. 120 substantial change) mean to you? EU Medical Device Regulations 4
D Change Approval Requirements - Does every change need formal customer approval? Design and Development of Products and Processes 17
T What does AS9100 mean when it says you must establish a process to do X? AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 24
L Does a backdate form format can be changed if wrong revision is used? Document Control Systems, Procedures, Forms and Templates 8
B General Motors and Honda Alliance - What does this mean to suppliers? IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 3
C ISO 13485 :2016 - CAPA - Does every CAPA need to be checked by regulations? ISO 13485:2016 - Medical Device Quality Management Systems 9
A Does ISO 9001:2015 cover all the requirements of ISO 10012:2003? ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 6
N FDA UDI - Label vs. Labeling - Does the insert need to include UDI? Other US Medical Device Regulations 1
A Does anyone have a checklist of API Spec 650 13th Edition? Oil and Gas Industry Standards and Regulations 0
D Does Manufacture can submit CE mark application under MDD with NB for his New product after May 2020? EU Medical Device Regulations 3
A What does this sentence "this symbol shall be used in the orientation shown" mean in ISO 780:2015? Other Medical Device Related Standards 4
L Turkish Requirements - Does the Software need to be translated? CE Marking (Conformité Européene) / CB Scheme 2
R Where does IATF 16949 address Process mapping? IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 3
J Does Pakistan Medical Device Import License allows parallel import? Other Medical Device Regulations World-Wide 0
BeaBea Interesting Discussion Where Does Marketing/ Advertisement of Products fit in to ISO 9001? Process Maps, Process Mapping and Turtle Diagrams 39
P Does anyone have a API Q1 Documentation Package? Quality Management System (QMS) Manuals 1
N What is our product classification? (Does Unclassified classification still exists) Other US Medical Device Regulations 14
C Does a CE mark infer meeting all applicable standards? CE Marking (Conformité Européene) / CB Scheme 4
N Small Company - Internal audit process - Who does the audit? Internal Auditing 16
J Does anyone have an excel IATF 16949 Internal Audit checklist I could use? IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 7
A Does AS9100 require traceability to operators performing the work? AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 4
I Does anybody use Detection in medical device Design FMEA? ISO 14971 - Medical Device Risk Management 18
A EN ISO 14971:2019 does not include the Annex Zs ISO 14971 - Medical Device Risk Management 4
Watchcat Does "Similar Device" = "Predicate"? EU Medical Device Regulations 7
C Document Control Stamps - Does anyone still stamp their documents? Document Control Systems, Procedures, Forms and Templates 24
Y Does Solidworks (2D/3D drafting modules) need validation? Other Medical Device and Orthopedic Related Topics 5
M Definition Open Audit - What does an Open Audit mean? Definitions, Acronyms, Abbreviations and Interpretations Listed Alphabetically 3
I Does training have to be written? ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 14
P What does UPH/m² mean? Quality Tools, Improvement and Analysis 3

Similar threads

Top Bottom