Does your company do something this stupid?

S

silly girl

#31
My question - how is it that a "reasonable middle-aged woman" ALLOWED that to happen???????:bonk:
There are a lot of reasons detailed by others, but additionally there is the fact that most women are well trained not to rock the boat socially - be nice, get along. This is part of what allows so many women to be sexually assaulted without the use of force - in the early stages of the assault they are very unwilling to draw the attention of others to the assault. Many women are even afraid to ask their attacker to stop because of this long ingrained training. Then of course it becomes too late.

Also, ever heard of Milgram's Obedience to Authority Study?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milgram_experiment

JRKH said:
Have to disagree with you Bill. This woman got up there and allowed the spanking to occur. This in itself negates her claim IMHO.
Blacks allowed themselves to be held as slaves, therefore it's their fault.

Women let themselves be raped, therefore it's their fault.

Obviously these are more dramatic examples, but the seem the same as your argument from a logic perspective. I believe in personal responsibility, and agree that there is too much litigation...but things are not always so black and white. I think that I am generally pretty strong willed, but even I have found myself going along with things in a social situation that I later regretted...

Silly Girl
 
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J
#32
silly girl said:
Blacks allowed themselves to be held as slaves, therefore it's their fault.

Women let themselves be raped, therefore it's their fault.

Obviously these are more dramatic examples, but the seem the same as your argument from a logic perspective. I believe in personal responsibility, and agree that there is too much litigation...but things are not always so black and white. I think that I am generally pretty strong willed, but even I have found myself going along with things in a social situation that I later regretted...
Silly Girl
I'm sorry but your examples don't even come close to being comparable.
Being chased through the woods/jungles/savannas, captured, beaten, chained and transported to another continent for sale and profit... or ... Being trapped, held down, beaten, and raped... cannot be compared to taking yourself up in front of people, being swatted and then going home.

Your last statement says it all. You regretted going along... but did you consider suing??? This is money grabbing and that's all.
 

Cari Spears

Super Moderator
Staff member
Super Moderator
#34
silly girl said:
Blacks allowed themselves to be held as slaves, therefore it's their fault.

Women let themselves be raped, therefore it's their fault.

Obviously these are more dramatic examples, but the seem the same as your argument from a logic perspective.
They sooooo are not the same!! The woman sueing was not physically forced to do anything - she CHOSE to participate. Black people did not ALLOW themselves to be held and rape victims do not LET themselves be raped.:rolleyes:
 
B

Bill Pflanz

#35
JRKH said:
Have to disagree with you Bill. This woman got up there and allowed the spanking to occur. This in itself negates her claim IMHO.

I'm curious to know if there were other women inviolved and how they felt about it. Did they quit and sue or did they get over it?

This Middle Aged Woman needs to Grow Up.

....And so do her former coworkers....

James

You better read my story again. It is a team building exercise that everyone is expected to do. Those who don't participate are not considered team players. I agree she probably should have refused but with all the pressure to go along, that is what made the exercise offensive.

I am part of the generation that used to allow that behavior and I was glad that it became politically and sometimes legally correct to stop it.

Bill Pflanz
 
J
#36
Bill Pflanz said:
You better read my story again. It is a team building exercise that everyone is expected to do. Those who don't participate are not considered team players. I agree she probably should have refused but with all the pressure to go along, that is what made the exercise offensive.

I am part of the generation that used to allow that behavior and I was glad that it became politically and sometimes legally correct to stop it.

Bill Pflanz
Bill,
I agree that this was a stupid and unnecessary excersize.
I disagree with the woman suing for in excess of a Million dollars for a few moments of discomfort.

James
 
B

Bill Pflanz

#37
As an addition to my above post above, I also saw incidences where women engineers and women plant workers were sexually harassed. When I asked one young engineer why she was quitting, she told me that if she pressed the issue about the REDACTED harassment she could forget her career for not seeing the humor in it. The one worker at the same plant would not even go to her sister who happened to work in HR for the same reason. I offered to say something to the vp but they just wanted it dropped.

As quality professionals, we should expect an environment that will support good work practices. I find it hard to believe that stories such as these do much. By the way, if I heard my wife or daughter was treated that way, I would be furious.

Bill Pflanz
 

SteelMaiden

Super Moderator
Super Moderator
#38
silly girl said:
There are a lot of reasons detailed by others, but additionally there is the fact that most women are well trained not to rock the boat socially - be nice, get along. This is part of what allows so many women to be sexually assaulted without the use of force - in the early stages of the assault they are very unwilling to draw the attention of others to the assault. Many women are even afraid to ask their attacker to stop because of this long ingrained training. Then of course it becomes too late.

Obviously these are more dramatic examples, but the seem the same as your argument from a logic perspective. I believe in personal responsibility, and agree that there is too much litigation...but things are not always so black and white. I think that I am generally pretty strong willed, but even I have found myself going along with things in a social situation that I later regretted...

Silly Girl
Sorry, Girl, but your arguments seem way too much like the stinkin thinkin that comes out of my teenage childrens' mouths.... "everybody said I had to...."

People in the business world need to show a little more maturity than to be sheeple. If you make a bad decision, you need to take ownership, accountability and responsibility, not cry foul so you can gain financially.

The business in question was wrong to do what they did, nobody would dispute that, but two wrongs don't make a right.
 

Wes Bucey

Quite Involved in Discussions
#39
I agree that many people find themelves between a rock and a hard place when it comes to the ethics of a situation. Reread this thread on Ethics (http://elsmar.com/Forums/showthread.php?t=9939&highlight=ethics) and apply some of the lessons there to this situation.

We all pretty much agree this was not a life, health, safety issue, so any comparison to rape or real battery (like a blanket party in the service) is off the table.

This woman went along to save futher humiliation and probable firing, then she consulted an attorney, who advised her of her rights.

Since the closing arguments were yesterday, we should have a decision soon. Then let's see whether the jury thought she was justified in suing.

Remember, this is Fresno, California, not some little backwater town. The people in Fresno can probably be counted on to determine a fair verdict.

We didn't hear all the testimony nor see any exhibits. The result of the trial is bound to surprise some of the contributors to this thread, regardless of the decision.

Bill has owned up to the fact he may have been passive when similar events occurred in his past where he was only a spectator, not a participant on the giving or receiving end. I, on the other hand, have ALWAYS ridden the moral horse, refusing to go along with any bully, without stepping in to save the underdog. I got my clock cleaned more than once, without saving the victim, but I'd do it again in a heartbeat.

Don't kid yourself. This was the sheer act of a bully. You can bet no CEO or other top officer allowed himself to be humiliated in front of the troops. The only folks on the receiving end were those too weak in the organization to refuse without retaliation. The others who went along probably were thanking their Deities, saying "Thank you, Deity, that it is not me out there!" Will the jury see it that way to the tune of real money?
 
S

silly girl

#40
JRKH said:
I'm sorry but your examples don't even come close to being comparable.
Being chased through the woods/jungles/savannas, captured, beaten, chained and transported to another continent for sale and profit... or ... Being trapped, held down, beaten, and raped... cannot be compared to taking yourself up in front of people, being swatted and then going home.

Your last statement says it all. You regretted going along... but did you consider suing??? This is money grabbing and that's all.
I was thinking more of the descendants of people who were captured and transported who had been trained from birth to accept their treatment - very similar to the way women are trained from birth to play nice and not make waves and men are trained from birth to stand up for themselves. Steel Maiden says, "People in the business world need to show a little more maturity than to be sheeple." - the people in the business world are the same people who have been well trained in how it is proper to behave based on gender. It does not change when they go to work.

I probably did not make it as clear as I could have that the intention with comparison between slavery and rape vs. this woman's situation was that we are shaped by society to react to these situations in the way that we do. Are you a woman? Do you have any concept of what that means in terms of being able to speak up? My statement about my own regrets are things so minor as to be completely insignificant, except in the sense that I was disappointed that I did not stand up better for myself.

By the way Cari - I was not implying that women deserve to be raped, ask to be raped, want to be raped, etc. but simpy that most women do not put up any physical fight, a few women will scream and shout, more will simply say 'no' and a significant portion will do nothing beyond trying to indicate unwillingness via body language. Believe it or not, many people would view the latter as very similar to what could have occurred to the woman in the current discussion.

I meant to encourage thinking about "Why a woman would allow that to happen." not decide whether she should get money.

Apologies for any misunderstanding as to what I intended to communicate. :eek:
 
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