Does your External Audit reflect your business systems?

How well does your external audit reflect your business?

  • The audit results are in tune with how I see the business.

    Votes: 3 27.3%
  • External audits do not reflect my business. There are always more non compliances than we deserve.

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Not enough non compliances. There are issues in my system the auditors do not seem able to find.

    Votes: 8 72.7%

  • Total voters
    11
I

Ingeniero1

#21
Rachel,
When we were first audited (for registration) back in August, we had no majors and no minors, but had several OFI. We wrote PA's for the OFI, and have reserved writing CA's for NC's, whether majors or minors, and of course, for anything else that needs 'fixing'.

The rationale was that an opportunity for improvement means that something 'could be improved' rather than 'must be corrected' and a preventive action appeared to be more appropriate. Of course, these are not black-and-white, cast-in-stone issues, but what is your opinion on this approach?

The OFI written by the BSI auditors were right on cue, and we were well aware and were already addressing them all but one. We were glad that the BSI auditor identified 'the one', as although the chances of it happening and becoming a problem are slim, it could nevertheless occur. Now are prepared for it 'ahead of it happening' - maybe it won't - maybe it will.

BTW, we will have our first, semi-annual external audit next month, and by then, the way I set it up, we will have had two of our quarterly internal audits.

Thanks!

Alex
 
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Sidney Vianna

Post Responsibly
Staff member
Admin
#22

Paul Simpson

Trusted Information Resource
#23
Sidney Vianna said:
Wow!! Great concept, Paul. I embrace this notion 200%. I wonder what results I would get if I googled "risk based certification" ? ;)
http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&rls=GGLD,GGLD:2004-36,GGLD:en&q=%22risk+based+certification%22
Naughty Sidney. Take that tongue out of your cheek. How did you turn my words round to a phrase used by your company (Trademarked?). Just to set the record straight ... there may be other certification bodies out there who can offer the service. I can name some!
 

RoxaneB

Super Moderator
Super Moderator
#25
Getting back to the question at hand, I've selected the first option...that findings are pretty much in line with how I see things. I believe it was cncmarine who reminded us External Audits are merely a sample of how things are working. One or two people who visit for one or two will not see everything, will not understand everything, but the findings (as nit-picky as I may find them sometimes) are valid.

Audits are a double-edged sword. No one wants findings, but for those of us who want more than just a piece of paper on the wall, we want our systems to be perfect, and sometimes, that means findings are issued to help get us to that stage of "perfection".

The politics of issues being classified as an NC or OFI are, unfortunately, the way things are. Now it's up to us to make the most of it and guide our senior managers to a solution that will keep the majority happy, if not the concensus.

I'll admit that I really don't currently see anything wrong with my company's BMS and thus, an audit with 0 findings is in line with how I see things. OFI's however, were issued and are greatly appreciated.

And, the times when I have known that something was wrong, there have been findings...maybe not always all the ones I know about, but limited people with limited time will find a limited amount of findings.

I hold my pool of Internal Auditors to a higher standard. They live and breathe our BMS every day....well, 5 days a week, actually. :) I expect them to speak the language of the operator. I expect them to know what they're looking for. I expect them to have findings (because no system is pefect) along with Opportunities for Improvement.

I say all of this just I'm finishing up what I can for our Registrar's questionnaire. I sent a copy to every auditee (from the VP to guy working at the bundling station). Results will be compiled and averaged for our company's overall opinion of our Registrar and our recent surveillance audit. All comments will be added, though...the good and the bad.

I will not, however, submit this questionnaire until I have received the Audit Report. This way, I can effectively answer the questions dealing on whether or not I received the report in a timely fashion. :notme:
 

Sidney Vianna

Post Responsibly
Staff member
Admin
#26
cncmarine said:
What standard is "Risk Based Cert." for?
Risk Based Certification is a protocol/methodology and can be deployed for any management system standard (ISO 9001, AS9100, TL-9000, ISO 14001, etc...)
Even though your opinion is that external audits do not add any value, others think otherwise. For those who think that an external audit can add value to an organization and their customers, Risk Based Certification is DNV's recently released answer to this expectation.
Thanks for asking.
 
C

cncmarine

#27
You’re Welcome.

I have a lot of lean in my background so a “value added” audit doesn’t make too much sense.

The DNV is a great business idea but I don’t agree that is should be used for AS9100.
 
#28
cncmarine said:
You’re Welcome.

I have a lot of lean in my background so a “value added” audit doesn’t make too much sense.
If I may, In the lean manufacturing world, "value added" is an activity that the customer is willing to pay for. In the world of ISO, that definition is less practical. The client has to pay for everything. But the key word is "willing". In the case of registration, value added is when I say that "I got my money's worth."
 
C

cncmarine

#29
A registration audit is a necessary expense to achieve or sustain business. I do not look for any improvement in my organization from the registration / surveillance audit.

Effective Internal Audit systems or corrective / preventive action program can be argued to be value added activities. But a registration audit is an audit of the system vs. the standard.

I believe that ISO / TS / AS are great quality management systems. Lean manufacturing and ISO can work together and they both can be value added activities.
 

Paul Simpson

Trusted Information Resource
#30
Exams add no value?

cncmarine said:
A registration audit is a necessary expense to achieve or sustain business. I do not look for any improvement in my organization from the registration / surveillance audit.
So it could be argued that the "badge on the wall" adds value then. Not a negotiating position I use often. I always say this is the icing on the cake. As I have posted in the past the audit is like a qualification exam. You put the effort in to get to the end result.
cncmarine said:
Effective Internal Audit systems or corrective / preventive action program can be argued to be value added activities. But a registration audit is an audit of the system vs. the standard.
They both cover the same ground. Internal audits look at the degree of compliance with company systems and so do external audits. The company systems in their turn are designed to meet the requirements of customers, markets and any international and company standards. The external audits may have to be carried out with slightly more emphasis on the standard requirements but they should be looking at the company objectives and targets, process measures and the key performance indicators of the business. This then can become a value adding service (IMHO).

If your audit is nit picking and looking only for compliance (as opposed to the process approach) then you won't get a value add.
 
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