Does your organization include Finance & Accounting documents in the QMS?

harry

Super Moderator
#11
Management accounting softwares today can be configured to show both debtors as well as creditors aging and much more. Financial auditors do highlight poor practices such as poor collection or payment but there isn't an NC or other mechanism to compel action. Therefore, it is left to the management - their habits or culture.

I guess there's no harm if you want to put this part (billing & payment) under the system.
 
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M

MIREGMGR

#12
Historically, we've been only a medical manufacturer, and our accounting operations have been records-compliant and procedurized but not QMS-integrated.

However, we currently are exploring an extension of our substantial advanced composites capabilities into military aerospace, and it appears that DCAA (DOD accounting rules) compliance requirements and auditing expectations may push us toward QMS integration.
 

dsheaffe

Involved In Discussions
#13
My 2 cents worth. As much as possible I try to take an all encompassing approach - so yes, where the company is willing, I include accounting and finance.

The resulting "Management System" (dropping 'Quality' is intentional) becomes a guide on how the whole business works all presented in a single standard format - not just those areas impacted directly by a more traditional QMS.

From an audit perspective, we do an occasional audit on finance where the focus is on AR and their involvement in Purchasing. They also occasionally get visited by the external auditor for the same reasons.

In a number of organisations I have worked in/with, the Finance dept already had their own procedues - so in these cases it was just a matter of incorporating them into the QMS.
 
R

RJFisher

#14
We include only those financial/accounting items that are connected to fulfilling customer requirements (e.g. customer requires a certain credit limit to get product delivered in a timely manner). This begins in Contract Review during Review of Requirements Related to the Product (7.2.2).

We have an accounts receivable procedure which describes the credit check process and the sales order approval process.

Also, work instructions for those functions in Great Plains which are customer/supplier related (e.g. Sales Order Entry, Purchase Order Entry, BOM Entry, MO Entry, etc).

Bottom line is, if it is directly linked with customer requirements or conformity to product requirements, it should be part of your QMS, in one way or another.

Just my :2cents:
 

Pancho

wikineer
Super Moderator
#15
Hey folks! We're implementing a lot of changes in our existing QMS system. I'm streamlining our quality manual and getting Level 2's written that were not part of the 6 required.... :) yada yada

In the past, I've worked for some companies that had mature QMS systems in place, so I feel I've got good background to carry the org where it needs to go, from where we are.

One thing I have not encountered and am curious to know:

Where does your organization fit in documentation for Finance & Accounting activities? Are they in your QMS-proper, or are they a totally separate stack of documents?

We are a North American organization with several sites, if that helps. Thanks for any advice!
Finance and Accounting are crucial to Quality since they provide many of the KPIs that guide our allocation of resources and management decision-making. Labeled as such or not, they are activities in support of the Management Process. Why not hold this process to the same standards as every other process?

We do document them in our QMS.
 
S

Sam4Quality

#16
I would like to agree with both dsheaffe and Panchobook, and all those who think Finance and accounting should be included in the QMS. And both have given different perspectives of its benefits and importance.

IMO, a QMS is a complete system of the organization, involving ALL organizational processes, irrespective of whether they are needed for certification purposes or not. Leaving them out of the 'system', simply because they do not fall under any clause of the QMS standards, dilutes the purpose of a SYSTEM. Finance and Accounting, as such do not work without original documentation, hence they always have records as evidence of their processes and proper control. However, as pointed out by others here, it does not work independently or without any links with other departments. They receive inputs from various processes and provide outputs to other processes, hence they are as much a part of the overall SYSTEM as any other department.

Policy making, Inventory control, Cost of Quality, Supplier/customer reconciliations, Budget allocation, Product pricing etc and many more extremely critical factors are directly connected with or assisted by Finance and Accounting forming part of the overall quality management system.
Hence, I do not or rather cannot ignore Finance and Accounting outside the quality management system of the company.

And..... I cannot let any Finance person take light of it and say, "Your ISO does not require us in...." ;)

Ciao. :cool:
 

Raffy

Quite Involved in Discussions
#17
What I do know is that Finance and Accounting are departments but there are different processes under this departments and/or Organizations. In this regard, we will document the said processes in our QMS.
Thank you Pancho for the enlightenment. :thanx:
Best regards,
Raffy :cool:
 
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