Does your Registrar ask folks "Who's the Management Representative"?

Does your registrar auditor ask folks "who's the MR"?

  • Yes, our auditor has asked that

    Votes: 9 75.0%
  • No, we've never been asked that

    Votes: 3 25.0%

  • Total voters
    12
  • Poll closed .

Howard Atkins

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#11
Re: Does your registrar ask folks "Who's the Management Rep"?

No this question has never been asked during a Third Party Audit, since I was usually the Guide (MR) with the Third Party Registrar auditor.

Andy, first are you sure you mean "Customer Representative or MR?"

If you mean "Customer Representative" then a possible reason is that the Auditor wants to validate one or all of the following: Customer Satisfaction and Communication.

If you mean the MR then one possible reason is that the MR is not specifically identified in the QMS or somewhere else, and the other is again Communication within the organization.
Coury,
TS requires a MR and a Customer Representative.

5.5.2.1 Customer representative
Top management shall designate personnel with responsibility and authority to ensure that customer requirements are addressed. This includes selection of special characteristics, setting quality objectives and related training, corrective and preventive actions, product design and development.
I have been in a 3rd party audit where this was asked. The MR was not a member of the management and there was an attempt to give a NC but I produced the interpretation ISO/TC176 ISO 9001:2000 - Interpretations
 
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Coury Ferguson

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#12
Re: Does your registrar ask folks "Who's the Management Rep"?

Coury,
TS requires a MR and a Customer Representative.


I have been in a 3rd party audit where this was asked. The MR was not a member of the management and there was an attempt to give a NC but I produced the interpretation ISO/TC176 ISO 9001:2000 - Interpretations
Thanks Howard. I am not an expert in TS, so most likely I wouldn't have known that. Can the MR and customer Representative be the same person?
 
Last edited:
R

ralphsulser

#13
Re: Does your registrar ask folks "Who's the Management Rep"?

Our TS16949 CB auditor has asked the people on the floor during the last 3 audits. They all answered it was "Ralph". Also have asked who the customer Rep is. This information is also in the Quality Manual and a procedure.
 

Sidney Vianna

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#14
Re: Does your registrar ask folks "Who's the Management Rep"?

:confused: There's got be a catch here. The question is obviously a sound one. Amongst many other things to check if contractual requirements are being satisfied.
I take it back. I had misunderstood the question. An auditor could ask anybody in the organization who the management rep is. But if the interviewee does not know the answer to that question, no N/C. There is no requirement in the Standards that requires that. It obviously becomes even more difficult when you are dealing with a very large, multi-site organization.
 

Crusader

Trusted Information Resource
#15
Re: Does your registrar ask folks "Who's the Management Rep"?

We get asked that same question every visit. Not once has it not been asked. Of course, it is always the same...Me.:eek:
 

Jim Wynne

Staff member
Admin
#16
Re: Does your registrar ask folks "Who's the Management Rep"?

I guess it depends on what you mean. I think it would be odd for an auditor to not ask who the management rep is (how else would he know?) but if I've never heard the question asked of, for example, people on the production floor. I suppose the question might be asked as a way of getting a feel for the penetration of the system. I mean, it's OK for auditors to ask questions that aren't directly related to "shalls"; it's just a question of what the auditor does with the answers.
 

Sidney Vianna

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#17
Re: Does your registrar ask folks "Who's the Management Rep"?

I mean, it's OK for auditors to ask questions that aren't directly related to "shalls"; it's just a question of what the auditor does with the answers.
:agree1:Exactly. It is like auditors asking users of documents how they know if a given document is the latest revision? Many documentation control management processes are designed in a way that the users of the documents don't need to know and even don't have the means to find out if a given document is the latest revision. And that is perfectly acceptable if the process was adequately designed and implemented.
 
B

Bill Pflanz

#18
Management rep is an ISO requirement and does not necessarily mean that the workers need to know who it is. The person could be the "go to guy" for quality issues but they do not have to be. There are smaller companies that have the plant manager as their management rep. Personally, I think it is a wasted question that contributes nothing to improving your quality system. I always thought that the primary purpose of having a designated management rep was for the benefit of the registrar so they had a contact.

Bill Pflanz
 

Sidney Vianna

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#19
I always thought that the primary purpose of having a designated management rep was for the benefit of the registrar so they had a contact. Bill Pflanz
As we all know, an organization could implement ISO 9001 and not be certified. Thus, liaising with the registrar is NOT the primary responsibility of the management representative. Needless to mention, but the responsibilities of the MR are stated in ISO 9001 5.5.2.

But few people realize that being a management representative could have some serious legal implications in certain regulated sectors. Should a company be involved with some product liability investigation, the management representative could be on the spotlight and a hot seat during the trials. That is one of the reasons (as I have been told) The Boeing Company requires their supplier to promptly notify them, when the management representative is changed. From Form X31764 :
Change In Quality Management Representative: The Seller shall promptly notify Boeing of any changes in the management representative with assigned responsibility and authority for the quality system.

 
B

Bill Pflanz

#20
As we all know, an organization could implement ISO 9001 and not be certified. Thus, liaising with the registrar is NOT the primary responsibility of the management representative. Needless to mention, but the responsibilities of the MR are stated in ISO 9001 5.5.2.
I had forgotten the entire clause and was only thinking about the Note that was at the end of it. For an external auditor, liaison with the registrar is included in the intent.

But few people realize that being a management representative could have some serious legal implications in certain regulated sectors. Should a company be involved with some product liability investigation, the management representative could be on the spotlight and a hot seat during the trials. That is one of the reasons (as I have been told) The Boeing Company requires their supplier to promptly notify them, when the management representative is changed. From Form X31764 :
If you were on the "hot seat" and were a capable quality professional, the first thing you would want to testify is that management is responsible for the quality system not the MR. The ISO clause for management representative says nothing about being responsible for the system but only for ensuring the processes are established and maintained, reporting of system performance and promoting awareness of customer requirements. There is the acknowledgement that the MR could have "other responsibilities" besides those described. Outside of participation in a clearly illegal act, I can't imagine why a management representative would be liable unless their "other responsibilities" were really the issue.

Bill Pflanz
 
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