Drawings - Design Rules

BarbaraS

Starting to get Involved
#1
We design and manufacture product that we sell to several different companies.
We out source wire harnesses and other products.

Wire harnesses have wire colors listed on our drawing, this helps with following wires to the correct pinouts. Insuring that the wires are attached correctly.

Here is my concern or opportunity for improvement
Someone has allowed each suppler to make their own drawing using their own wire color scheme with the same part number. This is very confusing.
Suppler 1 drawing part number XXX-CCC-BBB same as ours) calls out orange in pinout 1, blue in pinout 2, grey in pinout 3, black in pinout 4, all 4 wires are to be wrapped in grey
Supplier 2 drawing part number XXX-CCC-BBB (same as ours) calls out Red in pinout 1, Green in pinout 2, Blue in pinout 3, black in pinout 4, all 4 wires are to be wrapped in Black

In other manufacturing companies I have worked for in the past the process is as follows:
We make a drawing
That drawing is sent to suppliers for quotes
The suppliers say yes I can make this part or no I cannot make the part to the drawing,
Supplier contacts Lithionics and says Lithionics I can make this harness however my wire colors are different, can you accept this?
We get together as a team and agree or disagree with the supplier
If we agree that the supplier should fill out a Deviation for a short term fix or ECN – Long term fix.
ECN long term fix - Engineering Drawings will be updated to include their wire color scheme.
One drawing and everyone is on the same page.

Thoughts?
Are there rules, documentation, specifications that I am not aware of?
 
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Jim Wynne

Staff member
Admin
#2
The "rule" is that the supplier is obligated to make the harnesses in accordance with drawing requirements or, as you suggest, ask for a concession. The standard is MIL-T-FDS, which stands for Make It Like-The-F****** Drawing Says.
 

BarbaraS

Starting to get Involved
#3
The "rule" is that the supplier is obligated to make the harnesses in accordance with drawing requirements or, as you suggest, ask for a concession. The standard is MIL-T-FDS, which stands for Make It Like-The-F****** Drawing Says.
Thank you - however I am dealing with engineers and need correct and documented information to prove my point, not made up standards.
 

Jim Wynne

Staff member
Admin
#4
I'm not sure what you're looking for. Requiring suppliers to meet drawing requirements is a legal issue. Presumably you have purchase orders that direct the supplier to provide harnesses made to a specific revision of a specific drawing. The purchase order is a contract. What is the basis for disagreement?
 

Miner

Forum Moderator
Staff member
Admin
#5
Some things are so blatantly obvious that there is no need for a standard. If these suppliers had to PPAP to your drawings, they would be rejected for not building product that matches the engineering drawing. The drawing is the standard.
 

BarbaraS

Starting to get Involved
#6
I'm not sure what you're looking for. Requiring suppliers to meet drawing requirements is a legal issue. Presumably you have purchase orders that direct the supplier to provide harnesses made to a specific revision of a specific drawing. The purchase order is a contract. What is the basis for disagreement?
The engineering department believes its ok that the suppler make there own drawings and that its ok to allow them the change colors as needed. This in turns gives us several suppliers all making the same part, all with the same part number using many different colors of wires or whatever the difference is from one supplier to the next supplier.
 

BarbaraS

Starting to get Involved
#7
Some things are so blatantly obvious that there is no need for a standard. If these suppliers had to PPAP to your drawings, they would be rejected for not building product that matches the engineering drawing. The drawing is the standard.
I agree, I believe we should have 1 drawing and everyone works off that drawing, if the drawing needs to be changed to add another color or another suppler you add it to the existing drawing. Not allow every supplier to make there own.
If I can get them to comply with completing an FAI they will also use their drawing. to get a supplier to complete a PPAP here is rediculas one told purchasing they require 5K. I have never charged anyone for PPAP's or FAI's.
 

Jim Wynne

Staff member
Admin
#8
I'm amazed. I've worked with electronic assemblies and outsourced wiring harnesses and I can't remember an instance where a supplier took it upon himself to change the colors. What justification do your suppliers offer for doing it?
 

Jim Wynne

Staff member
Admin
#9
I agree, I believe we should have 1 drawing and everyone works off that drawing, if the drawing needs to be changed to add another color or another suppler you add it to the existing drawing. Not allow every supplier to make there own.
If I can get them to comply with completing an FAI they will also use their drawing. to get a supplier to complete a PPAP here is rediculas one told purchasing they require 5K. I have never charged anyone for PPAP's or FAI's.
I see no problem, in general, with suppliers making their own shop drawings, for whatever reason(s) they think it might be helpful. That doesn't alter the fact that your drawing is always the master, and any PPAP or FAI submissions should always be based on it.
 

BarbaraS

Starting to get Involved
#10
I'm amazed. I've worked with electronic assemblies and outsources wiring harnesses and I can't remember an instance where a supplier took it upon himself to change the colors. What justification do your suppliers offer for doing it?
The engineer on this program said this to me

You are making good points, but you are not considering reality of today’s material supply market.

We must have multiple suppliers, but those suppliers have access to different materials, and we can’t always enforce things like wire colors or shrink wrap colors, which are not functionally important.

If we start doing this, we will face additional shortages, lead times and costs. We don’t need this.

This is why I was always against stating colors in any drawings, especially in multi-wire cables, where wires are hidden inside the jacket for most of the run.

Only one thing is important in the wire harness as far as I’m concerned, it must have correct connections.

An exception can be for unterminated and individual wires, like AGSR and FCC connections, where customer can mix them up if they can’t be color coded.

But for multi-wire cables, shrink wraps around resistors, and other similar situations, enforcing colors is counterproductive.

Instead, we need to make drawings which allow for variations, so we can pass inspections despite those variations.

I’m sure you can develop a process which works with such variations in a single part number, while still being efficient and not confusing.

If you agree, then engineering needs to update drawings to include allowed color variations or remove checks for colors completely, unless explicitly stated.
 
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