ECR (Engineering Change Request) or NCR (Nonconformance Report) in Fabrication?

Q

QAMTY

#1
Hi all
I ´d like to hear from you about about the ECR´s
Focusing on ISO , what is the purpose of ECR´s?
In my opinion, it is to have evidence (records) of changes
To documents in Engineering after they have been approved for construction.
This way we can see how many changes are occurring and what other issues arise in the changes (change of scope, some cost involved, etc.)
But recently I had a case where there was not an ECR exactly, what it happened , was that we forgot to include one mechanical part for a fabrication, that required to Create a new drawing to include the forgotten part.
But really it was not an ECR, how do you consider this case?
As a NCR or an ECR?

Thanks for your help


 
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qusys

Trusted Information Resource
#2
Hi all
I ´d like to hear from you about about the ECR´s
Focusing on ISO , what is the purpose of ECR´s?
In my opinion, it is to have evidence (records) of changes
To documents in Engineering after they have been approved for construction.
This way we can see how many changes are occurring and what other issues arise in the changes (change of scope, some cost involved, etc.)
But recently I had a case where there was not an ECR exactly, what it happened , was that we forgot to include one mechanical part for a fabrication, that required to Create a new drawing to include the forgotten part.
But really it was not an ECR, how do you consider this case?
As a NCR or an ECR?

Thanks for your help


ISO 9001 does not prescribe ECR, it is up to the organization how to do to manage change and related records.
To respond to your question, if there was a deviation or non compliance to an internal procedure, this could carry to a non conformity , so to a corrective action or as you said NCR. You shall fix the root cause and then activate the corrective action.
Hope this helps.
 

kgott

Quite Involved in Discussions
#3
Hi all
Focusing on ISO , what is the purpose of ECR´s?
In my opinion, it is to have evidence (records) of changes

Thanks for your help
Qamnty; Gusys is right but also incorrect in a sense. ECNs are used to record and describe required changes. The important point is the reason for the ECN.

If they are customer driven then, in my view, they would not be a non conformance. This may even apply internally where the need or desire to change is centered on the customer and is suggested to the customer for their benefit.

Two jobs ago I worked for a company who made transportable accommodation units and some ECNs were for these sorts of reasons so in a nutshell I'm saying that wether or not its an NC or an improvement depends on the reason why.
 
S

ssz102

#4
i think ECR&O is a way of manage and control document and product change;
and this method had got approvaled the public, so it's the easy way before if you didn't find out the better way than this method
 

John Broomfield

Staff member
Super Moderator
#5
Hi all
I ´d like to hear from you about about the ECR´s
Focusing on ISO , what is the purpose of ECR´s?
In my opinion, it is to have evidence (records) of changes
To documents in Engineering after they have been approved for construction.
This way we can see how many changes are occurring and what other issues arise in the changes (change of scope, some cost involved, etc.)
But recently I had a case where there was not an ECR exactly, what it happened , was that we forgot to include one mechanical part for a fabrication, that required to Create a new drawing to include the forgotten part.
But really it was not an ECR, how do you consider this case?
As a NCR or an ECR?

Thanks for your help


QAMTY,

As I read it you say the item was built to conform to engineering dwgs but the dwgs were incomplete.

The ECR can be used to stop shipment of the incomplete item while the ECR ensures the missing part is designed, verified and validated (see 7.3.7).

Then you may decide to whether to issue a CAR to determine and eliminate the root causes of issuing incomplete design information.

Issuing an NCR on the item when it conforms could undermine confidence in the management system.

In this case use the ECR and update the design change control procedure to show how the ECR can also be used to stop processing or shipment of incomplete items that conform to incomplete designs.

John
 

qusys

Trusted Information Resource
#6
Qamnty; Gusys is right but also incorrect in a sense. ECNs are used to record and describe required changes. The important point is the reason for the ECN.

If they are customer driven then, in my view, they would not be a non conformance. This may even apply internally where the need or desire to change is centered on the customer and is suggested to the customer for their benefit.

Two jobs ago I worked for a company who made transportable accommodation units and some ECNs were for these sorts of reasons so in a nutshell I'm saying that wether or not its an NC or an improvement depends on the reason why.
Hi kgott.
I have understood your right point.
However, the organization could use both ECR and NCR. ECR to modify the drawing to include the right part ( as QAMNTY said) and then also decide to go for a corrective action ( NCR) given that the organizatin would like to fix the corrective action based upon identified root cause.:bigwave:
 

Jim Wynne

Staff member
Admin
#7
Hi all
I ´d like to hear from you about about the ECR´s
Focusing on ISO , what is the purpose of ECR´s?
In my opinion, it is to have evidence (records) of changes
To documents in Engineering after they have been approved for construction.
This way we can see how many changes are occurring and what other issues arise in the changes (change of scope, some cost involved, etc.)
But recently I had a case where there was not an ECR exactly, what it happened , was that we forgot to include one mechanical part for a fabrication, that required to Create a new drawing to include the forgotten part.
But really it was not an ECR, how do you consider this case?
As a NCR or an ECR?

Thanks for your help

QAMTY,

As I read it you say the item was built to conform to engineering dwgs but the dwgs were incomplete.

The ECR can be used to stop shipment of the incomplete item while the ECR ensures the missing part is designed, verified and validated (see 7.3.7).

Then you may decide to whether to issue a CAR to determine and eliminate the root causes of issuing incomplete design information.

Issuing an NCR on the item when it conforms could undermine confidence in the management system.

In this case use the ECR and update the design change control procedure to show how the ECR can also be used to stop processing or shipment of incomplete items that conform to incomplete designs.

John
If I read the OP correctly, a product was found to be missing a required component with the reason being that the component was inadvertently omitted from the documentation. The product was made according to the available specifications. This is one of those "The operation was a success but the patient died" situations, and certainly involves a nonconformities,one in the final product and another in the product development process.

Calling a nonconformity something else doesn't alter reality. There might be a situation in the OP's company where NCRs are used only for nonconforming product, and some other medium is used for process nonconformities. I don't know why this would be the case, but the way I see it there are two nonconformities and an engineering change (ECR, ECN, whatever) will be need to fix one of them, and something else (CA, perhaps) will be need to fix the process problem.
 

somashekar

Staff member
Super Moderator
#8
Your NCR when analysed must have a CA in such a case.
One of the CA (or correction) is the ECN which will include the forgot part.
Another CA is why it was forgot, so that you do not have missed parts again in the future.
 
Q

QAMTY

#9
Thanks to all

It really clarified me the point.

First to raise the NCR, then the CA and the ECR.

Thanks again
 
Q

QAMTY

#10
Thanks Gusys

Well, it is not found exactly as ECR, but It is the same concept
stated in 7.3.7 dont you think so?


Thanks
 
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