EFQM applied on the ISO 9001

A

Arkine

#1
Hello everyone,

I'm trying to apply the EFQM model to compare the old ISO 9001:2008 with the new ISO:2015 coming out.
This is interesting as you can analyse, for example, how the new ISO focus on Leadership compared to the old version.

I'm thinking of doing it by counting the words (ex: ISO 9001:2008, 40 times the word Leadership, while in the 2015, 60 times).

Does anyone know if there is any documents that already counted the clue words and highlighted it ?
Or any documents that already estimated how much the new ISO changes in the basic categories ( eg : focus on customer, leadership..)

Or maybe someone has in mind a better way to compare the two ISOs in the EFQM model ?

Edit : I maybe have another idea by doing this, pretty simple.
I saw that there are many experts on this forum.
On a scale from 0 to 10, how would you rate the changes that occurred ?
And how would you rate the actual ISO 9001:2008 covering these topics ?

The topics would be all the main EFQM subjects :
Leadership : 4/10 (ISO 9001:2008), while now covering 8/10 (ISO 9001:2015)
People
Strategy
Partnerships & Resources
Processes, products & services.

How much would you personally rank these?

This EFQM will then be based on your personal opinion.

Any comments or answer would be greatly appreciated,

Thank you,
Arkine
 
Last edited by a moderator:
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John Broomfield

Staff member
Super Moderator
#3
Hello everyone,

I'm trying to apply the EFQM model to compare the old ISO 9001:2008 with the new ISO:2015 coming out.
This is interesting as you can analyse, for example, how the new ISO focus on Leadership compared to the old version.

I'm thinking of doing it by counting the words (ex: ISO 9001:2008, 40 times the word Leadership, while in the 2015, 60 times).

Does anyone know if there is any documents that already counted the clue words and highlighted it ?
Or any documents that already estimated how much the new ISO changes in the basic categories ( eg : focus on customer, leadership..)

Or maybe someone has in mind a better way to compare the two ISOs in the EFQM model ?

Edit : I maybe have another idea by doing this, pretty simple.
I saw that there are many experts on this forum.
On a scale from 0 to 10, how would you rate the changes that occurred ?
And how would you rate the actual ISO 9001:2008 covering these topics ?

The topics would be all the main EFQM subjects :
Leadership : 4/10 (ISO 9001:2008), while now covering 8/10 (ISO 9001:2015)
People
Strategy
Partnerships & Resources
Processes, products & services.

How much would you personally rank these?

This EFQM will then be based on your personal opinion.

Any comments or answer would be greatly appreciated,

Thank you,
Arkine
Arkine,

Reduce the leadership requirements specified in each of the standards to leadership processes.

From this common language you can easily compare.

Bear in mind that processes are active verbs ending with ...ing and they are cross-functional.

For example, HR is not a process but recruiting and training are processes that may be owned by HR.

Examples of a leadership process would be:

A. Investing in continual improvement
B. Enabling employees to motivate themselves to do better work
C. Developing the organizational management system

You'll have to really search and think about the leadership processes implied and specified by the model/standard to do this.

Counting words is not going to hack it.

Please share the results of your work here.

John
 

dsanabria

Quite Involved in Discussions
#4
Hello everyone,

I'm trying to apply the EFQM model to compare the old ISO 9001:2008 with the new ISO:2015 coming out.
This is interesting as you can analyse, for example, how the new ISO focus on Leadership compared to the old version.

I'm thinking of doing it by counting the words (ex: ISO 9001:2008, 40 times the word Leadership, while in the 2015, 60 times).

Does anyone know if there is any documents that already counted the clue words and highlighted it ?
Or any documents that already estimated how much the new ISO changes in the basic categories ( eg : focus on customer, leadership..)

Or maybe someone has in mind a better way to compare the two ISOs in the EFQM model ?

Edit : I maybe have another idea by doing this, pretty simple.
I saw that there are many experts on this forum.
On a scale from 0 to 10, how would you rate the changes that occurred ?
And how would you rate the actual ISO 9001:2008 covering these topics ?

The topics would be all the main EFQM subjects :
Leadership : 4/10 (ISO 9001:2008), while now covering 8/10 (ISO 9001:2015)
People
Strategy
Partnerships & Resources
Processes, products & services.

How much would you personally rank these?

This EFQM will then be based on your personal opinion.

Any comments or answer would be greatly appreciated,

Thank you,
Arkine
While it is an interesting process of comparing documents that are about 8 years apart and written by different people with different background, I begin to wonder if it is something that people would spend time doing it. Furthermore, the official final standard is not out and all we are doing right now is glancing at ti and going HMMM...

What I tell people to do is to focus on process effectiveness and establishing / monitor metrics that add value to the company and to meet the requirements of "Analysis of Data" - as a minimum. Furthermore, look inside the company and find out how can I improve a process if I would measure it.

One final note - Leadership is another name for management
 
A

Arkine

#5
Thank you all for your answers.

You are totally right, counting word would not be a good way to do it.

I would still just like to quantify the changes happening, and see how it can fit into the EFQM diagram.

The best way i still have in mind is to make a survey about how you, experts, estimate these changes.

That's how the second idea i posted comes in.

How would you estimate the changes on a scale of 10.
Leadership : 4/10 (ISO 9001:2008), while now covering 8/10 (ISO 9001:2015)
People
Strategy
Partnerships & Resources
Processes, products & services.
If many of you participate maybe we can get something quite interesting.

What do you think ? would you agree to take part into my survey ?

Thank you for your help,

B.R
Arkine
 

John Broomfield

Staff member
Super Moderator
#6
Arline,

No thanks.

It seems to me that you are trying to get me to do your work for you.

But I have recommended a way for you to complete your research.

I wish you every success.

John
 

dsanabria

Quite Involved in Discussions
#7
Thank you all for your answers.

You are totally right, counting word would not be a good way to do it.

I would still just like to quantify the changes happening, and see how it can fit into the EFQM diagram.

The best way i still have in mind is to make a survey about how you, experts, estimate these changes.

That's how the second idea i posted comes in.

How would you estimate the changes on a scale of 10.


If many of you participate maybe we can get something quite interesting.

What do you think ? would you agree to take part into my survey ?

Thank you for your help,

B.R
Arkine
I am also out - Arkine, use the same energy to improve efficiency of product and process. This is more appreciated than doing a research on words. (don't see the benefit at this point in the process).
 
A

Arkine

#8
Hello,

Sorry as it seems like i've been misunderstood.
I never intended to get you to do the work for me.

I just wanted you to take 1 minute to write down a number about how you estimated it, no researches/ no justification needed. Just a number on the spur of the moment.

I just wanted to estimate it as i'm far from being an expert.

I thank you for reading me,

B/R
Arkine
 

John Broomfield

Staff member
Super Moderator
#9
Hello,

Sorry as it seems like i've been misunderstood.
I never intended to get you to do the work for me.

I just wanted you to take 1 minute to write down a number about how you estimated it, no researches/ no justification needed. Just a number on the spur of the moment.

I just wanted to estimate it as i'm far from being an expert.

I thank you for reading me,

B/R
Arkine
Arkine,

This is not a useful way to compare the standards either.

John
 
#10
Arkine:
John is correct. Your idea is trying to compare two different things. Like an apple and an orange. They are both fruit, similarly sized and shaped, but that's about it. Attempting to assign a number to a characteristic, like taste, is futile.
 
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