Electronic Control Design Company - Can We Register to TS 16949?

[anilo]

can we certficate?

Hi everybody.

ISO/TS, pag 1, says:" This technical specification is applicable to sites of the organization where customer specified parts, for production and/or service, are manufactured.
supporting functions[...] (such as design- center [...]) [...] cannot obtain stand alone certfication to this Technical specification"

We design electronic control unit, but we are NOT a supporting function: we are a firm ( a small size enterprise; < 30 employee), but we outsource the assembly of the printed circuit assembly, cause we have small lots and it's more economic for us to outsource rather than to buy all the necessary machinaries to assembly a unit.

So my answer to the forum is: if we want to to be certified ISO/TS, we can or not?
Our outsourcer can be certified as a part of us, or it has to certify for itself?

Thanks in advance.
Anilo

 

[Sean Kelley]

My understanding of this is YES you can be certified as you are providing a product to the automotive industry. Just because you outsource it you still are providing a product. You are not strictly a design facility. Also it sounds like the outprocessor making your part will likely need to be certified. You may need a letter requesting certification from a customer before your registrar will certify you. This is quite common and helps to make sure you need to be certified. The absolute best answer for this of course will come from your customer. It is customer driven and if they require it you will have to get it. If they don't then it would be at your option.

 

[p_tww]

IMO,yes you can, but only being audited with outsourced manufacturing sites together

 

[Brian Greydanus]

Can we reguister?

Can anyone get ISO/TS 16949 Registered?
No.
There are 3 criteria, any one of which must be met in order for an organization to apply for ISO/TS 16949 registration. They are:
1. The organization supplies a TS 16949 subscribing customer (e.g. you supply Ford, GM, Daimler?Chrysler, etc.)
2. The organization supplies a Customer who has required either TS or QS and is in the automotive supply chain (e.g. you supply a tier 1 who has required you to get QS certified).
3. The organization is a potential supplier to a customer described in either #1 or 2 above and has a documented RFQ or is being documented on the bid list.
Section 1.1 of the Technical Specification defines the applicability of the document to sites where production and/or service parts are manufactured. This definition also excludes manufactures of aftermarket parts from ISO/TS 16949:2002 applicability.
Additionally, organizations that do not perform value-added manufacturing processes (e.g. design centers, distributors) cannot apply for TS 16949 registration. They may, however, be included as a remote location in the registration of another site that performs manufacturing functions.
As a remote location you require ISO-9001 registration and the registrar should also provide a letter stating your compliance to the applicable elements of TS-16949. Otherwise you will be audited each time a facility uses your site as a support/remote location.

Yes.
I couldn't tell by your write up, but if you have not outsourced all assembly or value added work you can get TS-16949.
Suggestion: Bring value added work or assembly operations for 1 automotive part back in-house. You can than go for TS-16949.

Brian Greydanus
Quality Manager

 

[anilo]

Thanks Brian.

We are Lamborghini tier 1.
We design Electronic Control Unit.
2 or 3 years ago Audi (VW group) bought lamborghni from his old owners, thailand's dictatoe Suharto.

Since thaa time much changes occurred.

last years, Audi came to audit us (30 employees) and our assembler (300 employees): At the end Audi asked us to certificate VDA 6.1 or ISO/TS 16949.

If we can't certificate the entire firm, at least the Lamborghini line.

But we have not production process!
We design and control the production process, but the assembler'r personnel work on our products, with our instructions in conjunction with the outsourcer instructions.
we check the final product, the packaging, the software and then we ship to the customer.

We are ISO9001:2000, and field is "design, manifacture and assistance [...]", even if we have not the production.

So, if we can certificate ISO9001:2000 (and the Accredition Unit audits both the firms, we and the outsourcer) why we can't get, at the same manner, ISO/TS?

Thanks again,
anilo

 

[p_tww]

Hi, Brian,

I do not think it's reasonable for your 3 criteria on applicability of TS2 registration.
The company in question has control on outsourced production process, if they could ensure make on site audit with outsourced manufacturer and cover them at audit cycle times.They could apply for registration.

Hi, Anilo,

My suggestion is ask for some registrars on final decision.

 

[Laura M]

This was the closest thread I found on my search question of 'TS applicability' so I've revived it.

Would a heat treater be considered eligible? It's value added manufacturing, but they certainly do not supply parts.

 

[db]

This was the closest thread I found on my search question of 'TS applicability' so I've revived it.

Would a heat treater be considered eligible? It's value added manufacturing, but they certainly do not supply parts.

Yes.

TS 16949:2002 Clause 1.1"This Technical Specification is applicable to sites of the organization where customer-specified parts, for production and/or service are manufactured."

TS 16949:2002 Clause 3.1.6 "Manufacturing...process of making or fabricating...heat treating, welding, painting..."

So, heat treating is a "Manufacturing Process" and if the product you heat treat fits the above, then you may be eligible for TS registration. Now, there is also the consideration of whether your customer is requiring you to become registered. Check with your customers and registrar for more information.

Help any?

 

[Laura M]

Thanks - I guess I should have gotten the standard out before heading to the Cove!

Actually, its not me, but a potential client! They may just want ISO, but before we talked TS, I was looking for the information. I myself need to get to a training session soon, but want the first client lined up to cover the expense.

I feel like iI 'know' most of it through my past QS, conversations with auditors, and of course 'The Cove' but need to get the solid credentials behind me.

Laura

 

[D.Scott]

Laura, Don't forget TS16949 only applies to the automotive industry. If the heat treating is not for the automotive industry, it may not be registered to 16949. On another note, if a non-automotive customer requires ISO, the 16949 certification does not cover any non-automotive portion of the business. They would need a separate and additional certification to ISO. If your client has a choice (they are not required to be certified to 16949) and some of their work is non-automotive, they should consider ISO certification while working toward compliance to 16949 (not certification).

Dave