Electronic Documentation Systems - Security, Approval and Editing

#21
Claes Gefvenberg said:
Re-design? Possibly not, but how about patching it to make it live up to the the product specification? Look at Microsoft...

Anyway, If my customer tells me that my product is flawed, maybe I ought to think about fixing it? If I don't, it could have a negative effect on my sales before I know it...

/Claes
As for not meeting product specifications; I didn't read in "gerrybeans'" post that it did not meet product specifications.
The supplier did react. They indicated that there would be a charge for re-designing the software to suit the specific customer requirement. I use the word "re-design" here because there is no indication that the product is flawed.
Also there is no indication of how long the product has been on the market or how many complaints have been received.
 
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J

Jonell

#22
Hi,

I have our documents and procedures stored on the shared drive on our server. All users may access these files, but only as a read or print function. That way, if there are changes that anyone wants to make, they must come to me, as I'm the only one who has full access. I also keep a master book of hard copies, which has a signature page attached, rather like what CarolX is doing.

All the best!
Jonell
 

Wes Bucey

Quite Involved in Discussions
#23
Jonell said:
Hi,

I have our documents and procedures stored on the shared drive on our server. All users may access these files, but only as a read or print function. That way, if there are changes that anyone wants to make, they must come to me, as I'm the only one who has full access. I also keep a master book of hard copies, which has a signature page attached, rather like what CarolX is doing.

All the best!
Jonell
I can understand your position, Jonell, if you have a relatively small number of static (not often changed or updated) documents in your system.

However, when the documents run into thousands and changes are fast and frequent, a single person acting as the gatekeeper on allowing "approved" documents to be published (made available to others via hard copy or computer access) stands instead to be a "chokepoint" which inhibits the ready flow of documents.

Consider a system which has literally hundreds of document authors, constantly creating or modifying documents: it almost begs for an automated control and a process in which only the final approval (in a string of any number of approvals - the "collaboration circle") unlocks the key which turns it into a published document versus one in limbo while its authors and approvers collaborate on a finished document.

A good document management system (especially many off-the-shelf ones) makes allowance for the "limbo" documents and keeps them unavailable to anyone outside the "collaboration circle."
 
J

Jonell

#24
Wes,

Yes, We have a very small company here, about 60 employees total. What we have works for us for the number of documents and number of users that we have. There is no way that I could ever justify to the owner of the company, the need for anything more than what we have now, especially if there would be added expense involved, although having an automated system would sure be sweet.

Thanks for your input!
Jonell
 
#25
Wes Bucey said:
I can understand your position, Jonell, if you have a relatively small number of static (not often changed or updated) documents in your system.

However, when the documents run into thousands and changes are fast and frequent, a single person acting as the gatekeeper on allowing "approved" documents to be published (made available to others via hard copy or computer access) stands instead to be a "chokepoint" which inhibits the ready flow of documents.

Consider a system which has literally hundreds of document authors, constantly creating or modifying documents: it almost begs for an automated control and a process in which only the final approval (in a string of any number of approvals - the "collaboration circle") unlocks the key which turns it into a published document versus one in limbo while its authors and approvers collaborate on a finished document.

A good document management system (especially many off-the-shelf ones) makes allowance for the "limbo" documents and keeps them unavailable to anyone outside the "collaboration circle."
Wes,
I would bring up the point that you are describing chaos, however, it may appear that I am bemoaning the need for continual/continuous improvement.
As we know, "there is nothing constant except change". And that is what keeps us (quality folk) employed.
Brings to mind the phrase,"Oh, what a tangled web we (braid), when at first we try to (upgrade)".
 

Wes Bucey

Quite Involved in Discussions
#26
Chaos or logical conclusion?

Sam said:
Wes,
I would bring up the point that you are describing chaos, however, it may appear that I am bemoaning the need for continual/continuous improvement.
As we know, "there is nothing constant except change". And that is what keeps us (quality folk) employed.
Brings to mind the phrase,"Oh, what a tangled web we (braid), when at first we try to (upgrade)".
Yep, Sam. Often Document Management borders on Chaos. Some organizations (like Jonell's) are relatively small and located in a single geographic location. In such an instance, electronic document management is a "convenience."

In many, many instances, however, Document Managers are dealing with multiple sites and teams of collaborators (including customers and suppliers in many cases) scattered across half the globe. The concept of continuous improvement dictates that new documents and revisions to existing documents is the norm, not the exception.

If we are, as ISO9k2k suggests, "process oriented," then we create a process to handle document management (creation, collaboration, revision, approval, publication, storage, protection, retrieval, disposal) which is as efficient as possible.

In the early 60's, when I entered the workforce, document management was as important as it is today. The difference is the amazing compression of the timetable for creation, approval, and distribution of documents. What took weeks then is expected to be accomplished in hours today.

A CAD document (a technical drawing of a complicated device, for example) can be created, approved, and published to the point of being manufactured in less time than it took for the draftsman in 1960 to take a pencil or pen & ink drawing over to the blueprint machine at the end of the long drafting room and wait for the deep blue to develop while he got high from the fumes.

Given this incredible (to me) time compression, any single person who places himself in the position of sole gatekeeper is a major obstruction to continuous improvement. We need the process where the final approval of a new or modified document is the trigger to release it for publication and distribution. In addition, an audit trail is necessary for sampling for errors and for evaluation of further ways to improve and streamline the process.

:topic: The biggest impediment to an efficient process of document management is an ineffective or crippled software system. Practicioners should really examine the ROI of converting to a better process versus the losses due to inefficiencies of the current process.

Almost any good electronic document system will import and manage documents from an existing legacy system.

The primary/major cost is not the purchase or license price of the software - it is the cost of failure (if an obsolete or error-ridden document is used) and the cost of inefficiency and dissent for employees forced to work with error-prone tools. Remember the dictum of ISO9k2k Section 6 Resource Management - to provide tools and work environment "to achieve conformity to product requirements."
 
#27
Sam said:
As for not meeting product specifications; I didn't read in "gerrybeans'" post that it did not meet product specifications.
The supplier did react. They indicated that there would be a charge for re-designing the software to suit the specific customer requirement. I use the word "re-design" here because there is no indication that the product is flawed.
Yes. All true. However, I reacted to the fact that the software will allow you to publish a document even if it came back as 'Disapproved'. It looks very much like a bug to me... Surely that cannot be the way it was intended to work?

/Claes
 

Wes Bucey

Quite Involved in Discussions
#29
Claes Gefvenberg said:
Yes. All true. However, I reacted to the fact that the software will allow you to publish a document even if it came back as 'Disapproved'. It looks very much like a bug to me... Surely that cannot be the way it was intended to work?

/Claes
I think I know what the problem was with the software that was the original topic of discussion - it was a "document sharing" system, NOT a "document managing" system. The difference is like the difference between having a library full of books that anyone can take off the shelf and take home and a library which has the books sorted with a card file and a checkout system to charge fines if you keep the book out too long. It may even have some documents coded as "reference only" - not to be taken outside the library.

Both libraries serve the purpose of making material available for their users - one keeps adequate track of the materials, the other doesn't.
 
Last edited:
#30
Wes Bucey said:
- it was a "document sharing" system, NOT a "document managing" system.
Ah-haaaaaaaa. Yes, that would make a world of a difference, wouldn't it? In that case I withdraw my remarks about making it live up to the the product specification.

Thank's Wes :agree:

/Claes
 
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