Electronic Signatures - We're trying 1" x 5" Digital Sign-on Pads Like UPS's

J

Joe Cruse

#1
Electronic signatures

This is for anyone, but is directed to those of you using any kind of software, especially "home-grown" (MS Acess, etc).

Is anyone using digital signatures for capturing things like an attendee list for training or a training sheet that must be signed by the employee?

I'm puting together an application in MS Access for our Safety department and am experimenting with capturing electronic signatures via a 1" x 5" digital sign-on pad, like the ones you use to sign for your credit card in Wal-Mart and many department stores. They wanted to go paperless on things like training sign-in for employees, training acknowledgements, and personal monitoring sign-off, to begin with.

The next step might be to incorporate this into the QMS for things like employee training, where attendance is noted with a sign-in sheet.

Anyone else out there done this yet or had any experience with this type equipment?

Regards,

Joe
 
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A

Al Dyer

#2
Hi,

Good way to go!

I guess my only concern would be the integrity of the system. How is it proven that an electronic signature is traceable to an actual person and what safeguards are in place to ensure continuing integrity. (removing forgery from the process?)

Al...
 

Wes Bucey

Quite Involved in Discussions
#3
I think I must be lost somewhere back in the world of Donna Reed, Beaver, and Father Knows Best.

What is the purpose of protecting against forgeries by attendees at a training session? If it is really a problem, then consider biometric scan (thumbprint, retina, etc.) which start at really reasonable cost (much lower than having a security guard stand around all day checking IDs after every break to assure attendees return. I see some customers and suppliers with biometric scans at each computer in the building, with accompanying audit trail.)

[In regard to checking attendance, I've sure felt like heading to a saloon after enduring some presentations, and not returning for the afternoon.]

If there is no real threat of forgery regarding attendance, why bother?

Note that I make a distinction between forgery on attendance sheet and forgery on a document allied with the Quality of a product or service (engineering drawing, inspection sheet, service person's time sheet, etc.)
 
J

Joe Cruse

#4
Al,

with MS Access, you can set it up where the sign-in form can be for new entries only, with no changes to the record after sign in. And the tables with the data can be kept from the reach of all but the administrator.
One question that was raised was how to prove the signature belongs to the individual, if they signed on, but later claimed it was forged and they were never there? That's really no different from the same problem using paper forms. Though these E-pads may be difficult to sign on, compared to paper, my guess is that to prove it, you'd follow a similar procedure to check signatures on paper. Have the person sign several electronic samples, and compare to the original in question. If this were a legal problem, I can't imagine E-signature would be allowed for credit card stuff, medical, and HIPPA.

I did a "wet run" yesterday in the plant, as our Safety department was conducting refresher OSHA forklift training on our employees, and I had them sign in on paper and E-pad. The E-pad setup worked great! All the employees were "Hey, cool!". Our HR person was very interested in this also.
If anyone else wants to try it out, I can always post a sample Access DB to play with. I got all the code for the signature-capture process from a demo the vendor had (WAY too much code for my feeble experience).

What will all this gain us? From a safety aspect, once in place, all records will be electronic. This will simplify AND lean out the huge filing part of the job for an understaffed department. For HR (and Quality, to a degree), it will help a push to go paperless with employee records, and go paperless with much of the legal stuff our HR admin has to deal with, who is also understaffed. If it all works out, we should see a big reduction in paperwork, and better efficiency in filing and reporting. For starters, anyway.

Joe

Joe
 

SteelMaiden

Super Moderator
Super Moderator
#5
Joe, good for you! I would love to see e-signatures on our training. Unfortunately, our safety person can barely boot up his computer, so trying to get him to embrace new technology is like trying to teach a buffalo to fly, good grief!
 
E

energy

#6
Oh,Glorious Beacon of Light

SteelMaiden said:
Joe, good for you! I would love to see e-signatures on our training. Unfortunately, our safety person can barely boot up his computer, so trying to get him to embrace new technology is like trying to teach a buffalo to fly, good grief!
An excellent use of this technology is demonstrated daily by those of us who have to sign for packages delivered by "Brown". They hand you a plastic stylus and you write your signature in a window of their fancy scanner device and it all goes into the hand held computer for up loading later. Same thing at the new Self Check Out aisles in Home Depots. No fuss and no muss. I guess it largely depends on the size of the organization and the amount of documentation requiring signatures, to decide whether or not it's really useful or just somebody's new toy! ;) :agree:
 
J

Joe Cruse

#7
energy said:
An excellent use of this technology is demonstrated daily by those of us who have to sign for packages delivered by "Brown". They hand you a plastic stylus and you write your signature in a window of their fancy scanner device and it all goes into the hand held computer for up loading later.
Ha! About half the guys and gals made a comment about UPS!

The more stuff I see our HR Admin having to deal with, the more convinced I am that a paperless system would be very helpful, including the ability to E-sign documents. I'm hoping this is a foot in the door to streamline some stuff. As lean as our team is, we need all the efficiency help we can make for ourselves.

Joe
 
A

Al Dyer

#8
Wes,

I stand by my concerns about system integrity. Not the fact that someone in a training class would go out of their way falsify a record. I'm concerned about the larger system of the general idea. Do we want an un-verified system for electronic signatures for policies, procedures, and instructions. The same premise is valid for electronic signatures on all levels of documents, including training. Electronic signature systems must be planned, proofed, verified and validated at certain intervals just as any other product should be.

Al...
 
J

Joe Cruse

#9
The test runs have gone well, and we are transitioning to e-signature. The only probem I see is that the sign-in portal is a bottleneck to the rest of the show! May have to get some more sign-in pads.

As stated before, data/signature integrity can be enabled in the d'base design itself. This is also for use with Word, Exel, and Adobe use. It is possible for there to be some "monkeyshines", but no more than with a peper systme where someone is signed in by a fellow employee.

My next step with this is HR, which will start once our HR admin finishes her work on HIPPA compliance :mg:

Joe
 

Marc

Hunkered Down for the Duration with a Mask on...
Staff member
Admin
#10
What type of equipment costs - maybe per station or something - did you see? How about software and such? Or does a pad 'just plug in' and auto-magically recognized as a graphic tablet or something such?

In short, an excellent system, but can the 'average Joe' company afford this type of system?
 
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