"Elsmar 90" International Quality Standard anyone?

LUV-d-4UM

Quite Involved in Discussions
#21
General guideline based on good business practices. for "He that runs his company on visible figures alone will in time neither have a company nor figures" Deming.
 
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Mike S.

Happy to be Alive
Trusted Information Resource
#22
That makes me shiver with dread.

Someone who doesn't know my business, my employees or the market I serve is going to form a committee and write guidelines for how I manage the business? Oh, may it never be...

It will either be so invasive that I can't possibly exist if adopted,
or it will be so generic that it won't have value.
That's why I propose that YOU (management) determine the key characteristics, metrics, targets, etc. relating to employee satisfaction and engagement.
 

Ninja

Looking for Reality
Staff member
Super Moderator
#23
"He that runs his company on visible figures alone will in time neither have a company nor figures" Deming.
Great quote. Love it.

Here's mine:
"He that lets others define how his business operates does not run it...he runs from it" -Me-

IMO, The governance of top management is already in place. The customers put it there by their purchasing practices.
 

LUV-d-4UM

Quite Involved in Discussions
#24
Just like the ISO standards: We do not work for ISO, but rather ISO works for us. Once again let Elsmar Cove 90 work for the business. Its only a guidance.
 
#26
Marc..it is nice to interact with you after almost a year.

I don't know if what I have to say fits into the discussion.

After seeing hundreds of ISO-9001 manuals and documented procedures, I am concerned about the wide-spread practice of "copy and paste". I don't mind if the "copy and paste" is relevant to improve the quality of products and processes; I am against "copy and paste", without applying one's mind, blindly followed to cover some aspects of the standard.

In certain universities a Ph.D. thesis goes through a test for plagiarism. Should such a tool prescribed for QMS manual and procedures so that organizations prepare these documents relevant to their activities, products and services.

I don't know if it is worth considering in Elsmar 90 QMS System Standard.
 

LUV-d-4UM

Quite Involved in Discussions
#27
"Copy and paste" can be valuable if it means adaption of best practice. The Elsmar 90 How to Implement the different ISO standards would be neat.
 

drgnrider

Quite Involved in Discussions
#28
... start by having a requirement that every single member of top management to undertake a one-day course, with a complex test at the end of the day ...
AND, this course must be from an outside accredited vendor (I do not make my living as an ISO consultant or trainer)... not necessarily wanting to incur more costs to this already expensive endeavor, but I know how the 'internal courses' will go. :notme:

I agree with Sidney, in so much as management & top management need to PROVE they understand what this is about and that it is not just a lobby decoration. For too many managers and TOP managers, it's "ISO? oh, yeah that paper hanging in the lobby, no I don't have time for any of that, get back to me when the CB auditor is here, in the meantime see my jr-flunkie in the corner cubicle."

Most managers don't have a clue what ISO "IS" or what it is trying to accomplish for them, they just see it as an inconvenience to them and want nothing to do with it. I have had very cold receptions from managers when I try to audit them... such a chilly reception even after we found that pesky clause they failed to notice in the sales contract... can you say 'breach of contract'?


As for what I would like to see:
1) Less requirements for record keeping. Yes, we have a part that is not per purchasing spec, but is well within the usable tolerance for the assembly. Why do we need to make a record of all of them... it is not value-added and it won't affect the final product when in-use. Now if the part was unusable or required customer concession, these are different.
2) Obvious management disdain for ISO - should be a major non-conformance. It breeds a systemic disdain amongst the workers! :lmao:
 

Golfman25

Trusted Information Resource
#29
You could say that about quality, so no need for any QMS standards.
There really isn't a need for quality standards. If you adopt good practices and provide good products/services, the standard and certification is just busy work. But the problem is customers have become "lazy" and rely on a cert. to document that you're any good. Back in the day, we used to meet face to face.
 
J

John P (2016 Owner)

#30
If one really wants to have an "impacting" MANAGEMENT system standard, you have to make top management accountable. As a component of making top management accountable and involved, I would start by having a requirement that every single member of top management to undertake a one-day course, with a complex test at the end of the day to ensure they understand how a quality system is strategic to the organization, how a quality system has to be embedded in the operational processes of the company and how modern quality management is achieved.

Failure of having a member of top management taking the course and passing the exam would prevent the organization from claiming compliance to the standard, much less be certified to it.

Very few executives directing organizations truly understand modern quality management and how to set up and operate the organization for continual and cost effective delivery of customer satisfaction. If so much responsibility is placed on the shoulders of top management, we should make sure these people understand the what and why they are being tasked with so much.
I would also include two things:

Ethics and addressing Upper Management Compensation equality.
 
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