Employees regard the QA team as the "enemy"

J

jothor

#1
Hello
My name is Josephine
I am the Supplier Quality Engineer for a large company.
The company has grown exponentially over the past 4 years and although ISO certified, the majority of employees lack the general understanding and importance of the standard and continually regard the QA team as the "enemy".
I would like to change this negative perspective and am here to get pointers and advise.

Its been a rough 4 months :bonk::bonk::bonk:
 
Elsmar Forum Sponsor
#2
Re: New Folks - Please Take a Minute & Introduce Yourself/Say Hello! (8/2010 to TBD)

Well welcome to the Cove :bigwave:

I am sure you will get all kinds of ideas here. Just take your time, this place can cause information overload..

Also share your experiences. The struggles you've faced in the past might help someone in the present, or future.
 

John Broomfield

Staff member
Super Moderator
#3
Re: New Folks - Please Take a Minute & Introduce Yourself/Say Hello! (8/2010 to TBD)

Josephine,

Welcome to the Cove.

Employees should know how to use their system to determine and meet requirements. They should also understand the system's obligations and benefits.

Have Top Management or the employees' leaders explained this to them?

Employees are not required by ISO 9001 to know ISO 9001 or even its importance. They may be angry with people who embarrass them by flaunting such "lawyerly" knowledge.

Of course, QA is the confidence delivered by everyone working systematically to meet requirements. Better not to think of QA as a department or job title.

Good luck,

John
 

somashekar

Staff member
Super Moderator
#4
Hello
My name is Josephine
I am the Supplier Quality Engineer for a large company.
The company has grown exponentially over the past 4 years and although ISO certified, the majority of employees lack the general understanding and importance of the standard and continually regard the QA team as the "enemy".
I would like to change this negative perspective and am here to get pointers and advise.

Its been a rough 4 months :bonk::bonk::bonk:
Hi Josephine.
Are you in the team regarded as the "enemy" ~~~
Well well, is the QA team doing the policeman like job., rejecting, stopping, writing up NC and such.
There is more to it in QA than policing if you agree that it is more a policing.
An inspector must not only reject, but be also competent to show why it is a reject and how it can be corrected. Similarly the QA team must be able to get the due respect by demonstrating how the assurance of quality can be achieved in all that is done. Can you see some direction towards this to change the negative perspective ?
 
#5
Hello
My name is Josephine
I am the Supplier Quality Engineer for a large company.
The company has grown exponentially over the past 4 years and although ISO certified, the majority of employees lack the general understanding and importance of the standard and continually regard the QA team as the "enemy".
I would like to change this negative perspective and am here to get pointers and advise.

Its been a rough 4 months :bonk::bonk::bonk:
Two things occur to me. Firstly, let's dispense with the notion that the people need to have any regard for the standard. Secondly, the problem is not with the people, they are the symptom. The problem is with management and the people simply reflect that. Clearly (well to me, at least) your management don't know what the (correct role) of QA is - which isn't unusual.

Often QA acts purely reactively, so everyone else reacts to the reaction. I'd suggest that (someone) explains that QA is there - as the name suggests - to "assure" or provide confidence - which means getting involved in planning, in many cases, to prevent problems.

Oh, and while you're at it, if your CB auditor hasn't helped by making an issue of this type of thing, you should fire them and find a new one!
 

Wes Bucey

Quite Involved in Discussions
#6
The foregoing comments by John, Andy, and somashekar pretty much reflect the modern way of looking at quality as being a lot more like the Deming ideal rather than a "police activity."

If you AND your management could somehow get your heads around Deming's 14 points, Especially,
1. Create constancy of purpose toward improvement of product and service, with the aim to become competitive and to stay in business, and to provide jobs.
AND
9. Break down barriers between departments. People in research, design, sales, and production must work as a team, to foresee problems of production and in use that may be encountered with the product or service.


then a lot of that sense of "enemy" would disappear.

The problem with being seen as an enemy is that, unconsciously, those folks perceived as the enemy are doing things to create an Us vs. Them atmosphere in the workplace.

Many of the modern theories about quality management revolve around helping ALL employees [and managers] learn about the group and individual benefit of working together toward improving the quality of product and service of the organization.

Such improvements lead to improved marketability and profitability of those products and services, leading to improved pay, benefits, and bonuses for the workers and owners of the organization.

Finally, none of the modern theories about quality management refer to the value or importance of the average employee knowing the details or even existence of the so-called Standard as long as he knows and understands how his input and function fits in with the whole operation. These are PEOPLE, after all, not MACHINES.
 
Last edited:
K

kgott

#7
Hello
My name is Josephine
I am the Supplier Quality Engineer for a large company.
The company has grown exponentially over the past 4 years and although ISO certified, the majority of employees lack the general understanding and importance of the standard and continually regard the QA team as the "enemy".
I would like to change this negative perspective and am here to get pointers and advise.

Its been a rough 4 months :bonk::bonk::bonk:
Perhaps you might like to try:

talking about your companys get the work - do the work - get paid system and not quality system;

Asking people in the above chain what their problems are and how can you help them. Explain why if you cant.

get feed back from them on what they would like to see changed.

If you inspect things before they go to the customer they don't like the number of times you reject things for shipping, ask them why they made it wrong and then listen to what they say

Get out of inspection any way, this is a quality control activity the people in the 'product realisation' chain should be performing themselves.
 

TWA - not the airline

Trusted Information Resource
#8
What I found to be helpful is to point out that your job as QA is
- to prevent problems as early as possible
- to ensure compliance in the least burdensome way
- to analyse the cause of problems, not to seek culprits

and, of course, act accordingly. So when you talk to people while investigating an issue you should always point out how QA-think/QA-principles could have prevented it from occuring. Oftentimes you'll then hear things like "That sounds good and I'd like to try next time, but I'll never get the neccessary ressources" or similar information about where some of the deeper, organizational problems can be found. If you then are able to convince management to change things, then it will take not so long until your co-workers will cease to regard you as the "enemy".
 
P

PaulJSmith

#10
Hi, Josephine!

Your perception as "enemy" is not unique to your situation, unfortunately. It generally stems, as has already been noted, from the view that "they" are trying ship product, and "you" are trying to stop it. Simply remind them that your job is to help assure that only quality product gets to the customers. One of the best methods of assuring this is to only make good product. If there's a problem along the way, it's also your job to find that problem and help to overcome it and prevent it from being a problem in the future. Once they see that you're really on their side, you'll cease to be an "enemy" and be viewed as a vital part of the team.

QA should exist to help, not impede.
 
Thread starter Similar threads Forum Replies Date
I Motivating employees in regard to TS 16949 requirements - Seeking Ideas IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 7
N ISO 9001 - Training business with fewer than 5 employees ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 4
S Employees training database Document Control Systems, Procedures, Forms and Templates 4
B Qualifcations of Staffing Agency Employees to meet job description General Auditing Discussions 6
M Customers Request AS9100 certification - Small Company (less than 20 employees) AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 8
T Control of downloaded document copies by employees Document Control Systems, Procedures, Forms and Templates 3
Nicole Desouza ISO / AS Certification - Small business with less than 100 employees ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 7
D Reorganizing responsibilities between management teams and Employees in them ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 7
D Certifying a "virtual" company with zero employees ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 11
eule del ayre Manual Inventory System - Problem is discipline of the employees Lean in Manufacturing and Service Industries 7
M Determining number of employees within the "Scope" of the QMS ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 9
U Internal auditing - Company employees or contract second party Internal Auditing 10
S Quality System Induction Training for New Employees Training - Internal, External, Online and Distance Learning 16
P How to have employees buy-in of quality procedures. Best practices? ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 8
M AS9100 - Where to start - Small company (10 employees) and I am the Quality Dept. AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 45
S ISO 13485 Consultant Question - The company has 5 part time employees ISO 13485:2016 - Medical Device Quality Management Systems 1
M How to count the number of employees? Other Medical Device and Orthopedic Related Topics 4
N How to ensure our employees don’t grab and use the wrong materials Manufacturing and Related Processes 11
R Remote Support - Calculating Number of Employees IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 2
M Auditing processes followed by employees placed on client's site Internal Auditing 4
Q Presentation for Employees - Starting the ISO 9001:2015 Transition ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 2
H How to Establish and Document Competence of Employees in a Small Company ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 13
G Training Employees about Quality - Philosophy / Mind set Misc. Quality Assurance and Business Systems Related Topics 1
Q Lack of Awareness in ISO 9001 - Share a Presentation for Employees ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 2
A New company, no employees, Setting up a QMS ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 5
Stijloor Calculating (3rd Party) Audit Days for Company with Seasonal Employees General Auditing Discussions 3
E Employees in Quality Assurance Jobs Career and Occupation Discussions 2
P Small company of approx 28 Employees - ISO-9001:2008 Guidelines ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 7
S Customer Corrective Action requests and Sales Employees Promises AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 2
dubrizo If Quality Objectives are not known to employees, is it a Nonconformance? General Auditing Discussions 7
H ROI (Return on Investment) Calculation of Employees ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 7
R Training Production Employees When We Have SOOO Many SOPs Training - Internal, External, Online and Distance Learning 9
F What is the scope for "Total Numbers of Employees on site" per ISO/TS 16949 ? IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 4
A KPI's for Individuals (Employees) Manufacturing and Related Processes 10
M Help with TS16949 Awareness Training for Employees ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 7
A How do you motivate employees to follow the QMS? Quality Manager and Management Related Issues 18
K Making a Quality Requirements Handbook for Employees Training - Internal, External, Online and Distance Learning 10
P Audit Man Day Requirements - Small AS9100 Company hiring New Employees AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 18
T What to do when Employees are not following Instructions Human Factors and Ergonomics in Engineering 65
J Evidence of ISO Training for all Employees Training - Internal, External, Online and Distance Learning 27
S Head Count for Employees and Contract Workers Misc. Quality Assurance and Business Systems Related Topics 6
K Evidence for Language Knowledge of Employees Professional Certifications and Degrees 9
M How Employees can overcome Fear of Computers Quality Assurance and Compliance Software Tools and Solutions 14
N Must Employees Be Evaluated Annually? Training - Internal, External, Online and Distance Learning 19
L Requirements for employees personal precision measuring tools ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 9
S How to introduce new employees to ISO 9001 ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 17
M Certifying a company with two employees to ISO 9001 ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 6
A How to verify and validate the effectiveness of CAPA with regards to employees ? 21 CFR Part 820 - US FDA Quality System Regulations (QSR) 5
R QA Manager and Disciplining Employees for not following Processes Quality Manager and Management Related Issues 28
V Advantages of Training Employees about Health and Safety at the Workplace Occupational Health & Safety Management Standards 19

Similar threads

Top Bottom