Engineering changes for customer notification - PPAP Submission

ROOTS

Involved In Discussions
#1
As per PPAP 4th Edition clause no. 3.1 i.e. customer notification, the organization should notify the changes with regard to design, process or site to their customers by submitting the PPAP documents as per clause 3.2.

With reference to the above point, kindly clarify the following things.

Whether the customer notification / approval is required, if we done some changes in the internal construction, which does not affect the customer requirement / specification including the outer shape / sizes. (This question arised because we have done some value engineering / cost reduction in the internal construction to compensate the sudden price hike in the raw materials.)

Can anyone pl. help.

regards,
S. Kavitha
 
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Howard Atkins

Forum Administrator
Staff member
Admin
#2
Please remember
7.1.4 Change control
The organization shall have a process to control and react to changes that impact product realization. The effects of
any change, including those changes caused by any supplier, shall be assessed, and verification and validation
activities shall be defined, to ensure compliance with customer requirements. Changes shall be validated before implementation.
For proprietary designs, impact on form, fit and function (including performance and/or durability) shall be reviewed with the customer so that all effects can be properly evaluated.
When required by the customer, additional verification/identification requirements, such as those required for new product introduction, shall be met.
NOTE 1 Any product realization change affecting customer requirements requires notification to, and agreement from, the
customer.
NOTE 2 The above requirement applies to product and manufacturing process changes.
The question is can you prove that the change that you made has no effect on the customer.
Have you properly validated the change?
 

Wes Bucey

Quite Involved in Discussions
#3
Speaking as a purchaser, I want to know of ANY changes after the first PPAP, including something as minor a changing to a newer, more efficient production process. I DEFINITELY want validation the product I receive is the same or better than the one I bargained for when accepting the first PPAP.

Wes Bucey said:
:soap: soapbox time - I believe a basic failure in most supply chains is the unwillingness of the links to share information and keep up a continual communication channel among the links for the sake of the efficiency of the entire chain. Top dog OEMs have fostered this distrust by stealing info from one link and sharing it with a "different" player, who subsequently takes the business from the first link.

This has been a particularly egregious activity in recent years as some OEMs steal trade secrets from domestic suppliers and give them to off-shore suppliers who "make the same thing, only cheaper" (ask pet food and toothpaste buyers if that is REALLY true!)
Back on topic: Even with the possibility of a link in the supply chain being a traitor, changing a process STILL requires notice to the next link in the chain.
 

Jim Wynne

Staff member
Admin
#4
Speaking as a purchaser, I want to know of ANY changes after the first PPAP, including something as minor a changing to a newer, more efficient production process. I DEFINITELY want validation the product I receive is the same or better than the one I bargained for when accepting the first PPAP.
The current AIAG PPAP manual describes the default requirements for notification and resubmission; if you want to supersede the defaults you can, but it's a matter of explicitly stating the exception(s) in the contract.


Back on topic: Even with the possibility of a link in the supply chain being a traitor, changing a process STILL requires notice to the next link in the chain.
Maybe yes, maybe no. According to the 4th Edition PPAP manual, which I assume to be normative in this case because the OP cites it, notification is required in the case of
Product and process changes related to components of the production product manufactured internally or manufactured by suppliers
And under "Clarifications" for this requirement, it says,
Any changes, including changes at the supplier to the organization and their suppliers, that affect customer requirements, e.g., fit, form, function, performance, durability.
The manual also requires notification when there is
Use of other construction or material than was used in the previously approved part or product.
And the "Clarification" says,
For example, other construction as documented on a deviation (permit) or included on a note on the design record and not covered by an engineering change...
What this means is that if the change is something that would normally require a change in the design specifications, notification is necessary. In some instances, and "black box" applications come to mind, there is no need to notify if there are internal changes that don't affect design intent such as input/output and durability requirements.

Nonetheless, Wes's point is well-taken; when in doubt, notify. There are times when a change might seem innocuous but could have unexpected consequences in light of things the supplier has no way of knowing. The only exception to this might be in the case of black box applications that involve proprietary information, and the customer has already explicitly indicated lack of interest in changes so long as specified values remain unchanged.
 

ROOTS

Involved In Discussions
#5
Dear Mr.Howard Atkins,

Thanks for your reply.


Whenever we do any changes in the product, we will validate the product as per customer requirement / standards / specifications to verify the quality of product. We will also compare the results with the existing design results and if it is equal to the existing results, then only we will implement the changes.

For example if we do some cost savings in our product, to compensate the present market competitiveness, we could not able to inform the changes to the customer as the customer approval was getting delayed and due to that implementation for the changes are also got delayed. One more thing, the customer also expects the price reduction in the product. But actually as told already we are compensating the loss incurred due to hike in raw material price.

Regards,

S. Kavitha
 

Howard Atkins

Forum Administrator
Staff member
Admin
#6
One question,are you actually obliged to us the PPAP handbook, for example if your customer is Maruti, the customer requirements say FMEA but do not refer to the handbook. If I remember the PPAP requirements are also different.
Check the actual requirements.

The problem with cost reductions is that you are dammed if you do and dammed if you don't. You have a price hike, you return that to yourself and if you tell your customer then he demands to share it.

In the end I think that the dilemma should be put to the management for them to decide.
 
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