Ethics and Quality Management

Rate the expected ethics at companies you worked for

  • Expected to lie and fudge on anything and everything

    Votes: 2 14.3%
  • Expected to fudge frequently

    Votes: 6 42.9%
  • Expected to fudge on rare occasions

    Votes: 3 21.4%
  • Would be in trouble if I fudged

    Votes: 3 21.4%

  • Total voters
    14
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T

tyker

#12
My trusted Oxford English dictionary gives a slightly gentler definition from this side of the Atlantic compared with the American usage.

fudge

• noun
1 a soft sweet made from sugar, butter, and milk or cream.
2 before another noun chiefly N. Amer. rich chocolate, used as a sauce or a filling for cakes.
3 an attempt to fudge an issue.

• verb
1 present in a vague way, especially to mislead.
2 manipulate (facts or figures) so as to present a desired picture.

— ORIGIN probably from obsolete fadge to fit.
 
T

tyker

#14
:topic:Thanks a lot, Tyker!! Now I will be fantasizing about vanilla fudge for the rest of the day... ;) :topic:
Just to add to your pain:
http://uktv.co.uk/food/recipe/aid/513459
:)

Back on topic. Many years ago, I used to work for part of General Motors in Europe. Although fudging wasn't actually part of the job description it was widely understood to be a necessary competence and it's an ability I've never lost. To be fair, we were nowhere near as good at fudging as GM Brazil who were universally recognized as the centre of excellence for that technique.:(
 

ScottK

Not out of the crisis
Staff member
Super Moderator
#15
I've been in places where fudging is accepted practice and other places where you would get fired.

Have I fudged?
Well - yes and no. In my QA Engineer days I would occasionally modify specs to make the data fit, but never changed data to make it fit the spec.

These days most of my "fudging" is covering my people against rules I don't agree with until I can get those rules changed.
 
K

Kevin H

#16
Hi Greg, thanks for the interesting topic - the only change I'd probably make in the poll would have been to add a midpoint on the fudging frequency between frequent and occasionally - basically where I feel I currently fit in.

Coming into the steel industry in the mid-1970's around Pittsburgh, PA the plant I worked for then conciously fudged chemistries on their low carbon grades - they made grades they called 1005-A, B, or C depending primarily on carbon and sulfur content that ended up as automotive sheet. It was common practice for the metallurgists to "fudge" (actually we called it pull) the analysis for those 2 elements within analytical limits to make a B an A or a C a B if results weren't what was expected. I left that job in 1976 - pulling chemistries was part of the reason for leaving, though not what I told the organization when I left. I should note that the plant in question is no longer in existance - it went under in the 1980's.

I haven't had to do that at any other position until I got shifted to the current position in QC about 1 and 1/2 years ago. The Lab manager and former QC engineer hadn't maintained good calibration practices and we set specifications with the noncalibrated equipment, when I calibrated the equipment we started getting results that were out of specification. Our response as dictated by the manager, who is now our QA Director was to use the old out of cal equipment to produce results that are in spec. for the customer.

What annoys me about the situation is that we didn't uncover it during any quality system audits of the lab. It also annoys the hell out of me to have to do the fudging, and is a major impetus to change organizations. The only redeeming fact is that our customers apparently have no trouble using the material produced - we've had no complaints regarding the materials where we've fudged the tests.
 
K

Kevin H

#18
Jennifer, I was one of the lab auditors on at least some of the audits and I didn't catch it - didn't dig deeply enough, something to consider in future positions.

It's been awhile since I audited the lab, so the equipment might have been OK during my audits. Members of our Tech Center have apparently known several of the failings, but never brought their concerns to the appropriate level of attention. Since taking this position they have mentioned them to me.

The Tech Center manager also audited the lab and never identified/found the issues. I've had to calibrate equipment, and have gone back over old calibration records for instruments such as micrometers - it's apparent that the prior position holder didn't even have a good idea of calibration - you don't calibrate a micrometer and get 5 readings of 0.25000" for a .25000" gage block, you "dance around the true value". But somehow he managed to do get those 5 identical readings for all gage blocks checked for all micrometers, same for analytical balances, and some other instruments.

I'm not certain the issues would have been welcomed by our quality system anyway - we have real issues correcting/clearing nonconformances. But, we do have our quality system certificates to ISO/TS, ISO 9001-2000, etc. :eek:
 

BradM

Staff member
Admin
#19
I've been in places where fudging is accepted practice and other places where you would get fired.

Have I fudged?
Well - yes and no. In my QA Engineer days I would occasionally modify specs to make the data fit, but never changed data to make it fit the spec.

These days most of my "fudging" is covering my people against rules I don't agree with until I can get those rules changed.
Good thought, Scott. For example, many times with equipment/ instrumentation, there may be a wide acceptable tolerance. Thus, a user may want to know the capability and then set a wide tolerance from that. But never is the data changed. In prior jobs I have been asked to change data (which I flatly refused).
 
R

Randy Stewart

#20
I have never been asked to "fudge" anything, however, I have seen the information that I supplied put aside and ignored.
In the Navy, I always kept a "Memo to file" just in case that a bit of info was forgotten.
I agree with Wes, why lie? It will all come out in the wash and by that time the problem will have grown!
 
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