Ethics - Tooling drawings and controls passed on to another supplier by the Customer

[krishkaar]

Customer or his authorised representatives keep visiting suppliers on various grounds - monitoring development programs, II Party Audit and so on. Supplier parts with a lot of info, documents and records.

Shock to the supplier. - his organisation's control plans and all related documents including tooling drawings and controls passed on to another supplier by the Customer.

During the course of next three to six months, the poor supplier looses his business.

Openness to the Standard, submission requirements of a variety of documents with many details...

Customer is King, Customer is God, Customer is boss ...........

If customer is not ethical...........

What is the solution?

 

[Jim Wynne]

Make sure that everyone who enters your plant, including employees, has signed a nondisclosure agreement drafted by a competent attorney, then vigorously enforce them.

 

[Wes Bucey]

The reality of business is that someone is ALWAYS trying to get an "edge" over competition by cutting corners. This includes stealing intellectual property and transferring it to willing folks who will then use that technology to produce cheaper goods because they haven't had to invest money in development.

Some organizations and even entire governments are notorious for doing this. They will willingly sign such nondisclosure agreements and challenge the victim to PROVE the theft. In extreme cases, they will shut down and open up shop under a new name. Companies will declare they were victimized by rogue employees who have mysteriously "disappeared."

ONE METHOD OF PROTECTION:
Identify trade secrets and other technology unique to the company and limit WHO may know any details of the technology. Use simple techniques like masking the names of customers on any paperwork lying around your company which may be casually seen and noted by plant visitors. Be extremely circumspect in what you disclose when providing PPAP and FMEA reports to customers. Do as Jim says and invest some money in a competent attorney and security expert who will look through your current practices to help you protect your intellectual property.

In my years of experience, I have seen many companies participate in such unethical and often illegal behavior. Primary in my consciousness is the venerable Sears, Roebuck which just plain stole the technology for quick release socket wrenches from a small supplier and engaged in a horrendously expensive legal battle to avoid a day of reckoning.

If you have ANY secrets (customer details are definitely secrets), you need to be vigilent to protect them from prying eyes.

 

[Kevin H]

I have to agree with Jim and Wes. - When we supply customers with control plans and FMEAs as part of a PPAP package we have a number of critical sections that are blackened to maintain secrecy. The customer may view unblackened ones at our plant only (even the unblackened ones are relatively generic, but do give away some equipment manufacturer information). We will give them a tour of our processes, but we have certain sections where we consider the process to be proprietary. We have placed these areas behind walls and have not permitted a customer to enter them. So far, we have been successful in enforcing those requirements for secrecy.

Wes, the quick release socket saga had a positive ending even though it took quite awhile to get to it- the little guy won! From what I've read in the past regarding the quick release socket, it was shameless exploitation of a backyard inventor by a major corporation - an example of capitalism at its worst.

I have the feeling that the little guy winning as with the above example does not happen as frequently as we who read about it might like it to.

 

[Don Palmer]

Peter Roberts v. Sears Roebuck & Co.

This true story of the "quick release socket wrenches" caught my attention. Wanting to learn more about it, I did a Google Search and this is about all I came up with. Is this more or less what happened, or does Paul Harvey have "The rest of the story"?

In 1965, Sears paid Peter Roberts, a 20-year-old former clerk in one of its Massachusetts stores, $10,000 for the rights to license his patented design for a "quick release" socket wrench. At the time, Roberts later argued, Sears suggested that the tool's marketability was limited. Over the next 10 years, some 19 million wrenches were sold, with revenues on the product topping $44 million. Roberts filed a suit in 1969 to rescind the original agreement. A series of legal victories from 1978 to 1982 culminated when a federal judge awarded Roberts $8.2 million, but that decision was overturned on appeal. The scenario ended with an out-of-court settlement in 1989, the terms of which remain confidential. "I'm right; they're wrong," Roberts reportedly said during the litigation. "I've wrapped up a majority of my life around the thing. I'm just trying to get what is justly and rightly mine."

 

[Wes Bucey]

Those are the bare bones. Look at the elapsed time!

Suffice to say the settlement was such a miniscule amount, it didn't even appear as a separate line item in the 10Q or 10K reports Sears made to the SEC. I think Sears and its attorneys just wore down the plaintiff and his attorneys.

In the words of Cuba Goodings' character in a popular movie, "Show me the money!"

 

[Al Rosen]

That's why you should always consult a liar er lawyer.

 

[Helmut Jilling]

Customer is King, Customer is God, Customer is boss ...........

If customer is not ethical...........

What is the solution?

The Customer is only a customer...everything else is negotiable.

They are not God, they are not always right, they are not king....they are not always ethical.

However, if you select good customers, develop a good working relationship with them, keep them satisfied, you might make a good living.

 

[Laura M]

PPAP opens up vulnerability. You quote the part and win! WooHoo!!

Then customer says - tell me exactly how you are going to make it, using what process, procedure, gages, etc. Can that info then be used to requote? or compare to a more favored supplier?

PFMEA's, if done to the detail currently required should be allowed to be confidential. "Available to view on site" should be an acceptable PPAP. The big 3 should not be allowed to invade innovation and use it against you.

As far as liar's, I mean lawyers go, I've taken on 2 (in personal biz, not in a work issue), without the extra semesters that they had the advantage of and won! Don't get me started! Let's just say I saved over 20K on the purchase of my house and told my lawyer that he was an overpaid incompetant moron in approx the same 5 minutes as proving the other guys lawyer wrong.

 

[Helmut Jilling]

PPAP opens up vulnerability...
PFMEA's, if done to the detail currently required should be allowed to be confidential. "Available to view on site" should be an acceptable PPAP. The big 3 should not be allowed to invade innovation and use it against you.

If there is confidential stuff, you can negotiate or agree with your customer on how to conceal or withold. After all, many customers won't give you a DFMEA, even though they are supposed to.

You can always say no, but so can your customer. But, these are customer specific requirments, and therefore can be negotiated with the respective customer.