Evaluation of Required Resources for Internal Audits

L

LesPiles

#1
Hello


I just planned the audit schedule for 2013 and of course, I'm using personel from other departments to audit (audit team, as my own quality dpt. is understaffed).

Put in cc: the bosses of the internal auditors in the 2013 planning, one replied by asking how much time it should take in man-hours for 2013.

My answer was :


  • 2 days for preparation ;
  • 1.5 days for audit ;
  • 1 day for discussion & reporting.

What do you think of this resource consumption ? Have I provided a fair evaluation ? My guess is yes but I mentionned to this Manager I would check :)

Thank you in advance for your prompts inputs ! :)
 
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somashekar

Staff member
Super Moderator
#2
Re: Evaluation of req. resources for internal audits

Hello


I just planned the audit schedule for 2013 and of course, I'm using personel from other departments to audit (audit team, as my own quality dpt. is understaffed).

Put in cc: the bosses of the internal auditors in the 2013 planning, one replied by asking how much time it should take in man-hours for 2013.

My answer was :


  • 2 days for preparation ;
  • 1.5 days for audit ;
  • 1 day for discussion & reporting.

What do you think of this resource consumption ? Have I provided a fair evaluation ? My guess is yes but I mentionned to this Manager I would check :)

Thank you in advance for your prompts inputs ! :)
As the internal audit is a planned program, your internal audit resource persons can plan their work and audit per the schedule drawn. At times the schedule can be redrawn to meet the auditor / auditee priorities.
It is ignorant on the part of the boss asking you such a question. As the MR (I guess you are) you may not reply the mail, however take this opportunity to discuss the matter with the boss and appraise that all (you / he / internal auditor) are involved in organization business processes in work and audit times, and that you are not hindering any departmental process by taking competent internal auditors for internal audit purpose from the department, with a planned schedule.
What if that person falls sick and does not come to work for a week suddenly? Does that boss face a breakdown situation.
I smell non-cooperation here ...
 
R

Randy Lefferts

#3
Hello


I just planned the audit schedule for 2013 and of course, I'm using personel from other departments to audit (audit team, as my own quality dpt. is understaffed).

Put in cc: the bosses of the internal auditors in the 2013 planning, one replied by asking how much time it should take in man-hours for 2013.

My answer was :


  • 2 days for preparation ;
  • 1.5 days for audit ;
  • 1 day for discussion & reporting.

What do you think of this resource consumption ? Have I provided a fair evaluation ? My guess is yes but I mentionned to this Manager I would check :)

Thank you in advance for your prompts inputs ! :)
It is difficult to say. How are your audits structured? How complex are your processes? How many processes do you have to audit? How do your processes interrelate? Are you auditing to a checklist or are you performing a process based audit? All of these will affect your time during an audit.

Are you saying that it will take about 4.5 man days a year, total, to audit everything in your plan?
 
#4
Hello


I just planned the audit schedule for 2013 and of course, I'm using personel from other departments to audit (audit team, as my own quality dpt. is understaffed).

Put in cc: the bosses of the internal auditors in the 2013 planning, one replied by asking how much time it should take in man-hours for 2013.

My answer was :


  • 2 days for preparation ;
  • 1.5 days for audit ;
  • 1 day for discussion & reporting.

What do you think of this resource consumption ? Have I provided a fair evaluation ? My guess is yes but I mentionned to this Manager I would check :)

Thank you in advance for your prompts inputs ! :)
May I ask why you feel the need to set up a calendar of audits and then guess at the time it'll take? It's unnecessary, not a requirements of ISO 9001 (or 19011 either) and almost a practical impossibility to give any accuracy.

The amount of time to plan an audit is dependent on scope. If you are doing 1 huge systems wide audit - a bit like a CB does, you may wish to rethink that - ISO really points you at auditing processes based on status and importance - not emulating what the CB does...
 
B

buzzjaw

#5
It might not be a requirement of any standard, but any boss is likely to want to know how much time his staff need to dedicate to a task. It's a reasonable question, but difficult to answer. I have certainly seen 300 strong organisations allow a week per audit, so in that sense it isn't unreasonable, however I have also seen similar sized organisations conduct internal audits in a day. I also note that in some organisations the amount of time dedicated to the task is inordinately high because of the limited competence of the auditor. I hope that helps.
 
L

LesPiles

#6
Thank you all for your inputs !

To answer some questions and add furter comments.

  • One of internal resource (auditor) come from an R&D departement and those engineers are being "tracked" - their usage is being followed almost on an hour basis, as their work on projects, "billable projects" (either internally or externally). e.g., their time sheet is monitored and they have almost no provisions for any other activity.
  • My plan is to do 3 internal audits per year. Last year, we had so many external audits (from customers) that I had difficulty doing just one ... I even asked for an exclusion to my registrar but he denied it ... So I did one and my conclusion is that it's more difficult doing just one that three small.
  • We have an eng. dpt and we're also doing production. My system has a 150 procedures (docs, exclusing forms) I think ...
  • We don't audit from a checklist. It has probably done in this way in the past but we changed this way of functionning. We (myself and a former employee) thought that it was restricting what the employee should know about their process and we also though that it was limiting ourselves as auditors.
  • I'm a bit surprised about the requirement - I will have to check again the standards. Audits must be planned from my point of view - An audit schedule must me provided.
  • We're not emulating what the external auditor is doing. The "deal" we have is that he is auditing relatative to the standard ; we're auditing relative to our internal documentation.
  • Competence ... and experience is an issue. I talked to a major US company at the end of 2012 and they mentionned that they were doing audits in the hundreds per year !!!
Thanks again to all that have replied to my post.

Feel free to further commments : it always helps ! :)

:agree1:
 
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