Ever come across an ISO 9001 certificate with more than 3 years validity period?

[Sidney Vianna]

The IAF MOU signatory AB's must follow the guidance contained in IAF GD 2:2005 Guidance on the Application of Guide 62:1996 . Paragraph G.3.5.10 states:

All certification/registration documents shall identify the period for which the certification/registration is valid.

I have been dealing with UKAS on another issue, and, I have to say, I am disappointed with what seems their resolve in enforce certain basic requirements. The evidence in this thread alone seems to contravene the above requirement. UKAS used to have a reputation of being the most strict Accreditation Body amongst the IAF members. Not so sure anymore....

 

[Jim Wynne]

The IAF MOU signatory AB's must follow the guidance contained in IAF GD 2:2005 Guidance on the Application of Guide 62:1996 . Paragraph G.3.5.10 states: I have been dealing with UKAS on another issue, and, I have to say, I am disappointed with what seems their resolve in enforce certain basic requirements. The evidence in this thread alone seems to contravene the above requirement. UKAS used to have a reputation of being the most strict Accreditation Body amongst the IAF members. Not so sure anymore....

It seems that ISO (and other standard-issuing bodies) are always issuing explanations for things that should have been explained in the original document. How can "Guidance on the Application of [a] Guide..." make sense to anyone?

 

[Sidney Vianna]

How can "Guidance on the Application of [a] Guide..." make sense to anyone?

thank you for being modest.
your little annoyance is but natural. but pointers do not intent to hurt you ,these are leads to draw your attention to assess your real gains and effectiveness and procceed for any improvement related revision.
on job quality of auditing is one thing we should evaluate on ongioing basis in addition to number of trained auditors.
probably your extent of continual improvement vis a vis your objectives with auditable targets can justify your level of satisfaction.
please realise that most of the companies pass through these eyeopener exercises for nearing perfection.
your quality manual is the image/face of organisational commitments to quality then naturally it need to be inspiring.-after all you get thread from there. care for it .open to ideas is being open to improvements-synchronise them with organisational skills. regards.progressive post.

funny

 

[cheahga]

Re: Have you ever come accross on certificate of ISO 9001 more than 3 years validatio

Under ANAB, UKAS, SCC, and other IAF AB's it is no longer valid if I'm correct. Certs are only good for 3 years max and then they have to be renewed.

The cert may be under a different accreditation body or may be as bogus as a US $3 bill.

The certificate issued was accredited by UKAS. From all the certificate acquired from suppliers, it's seems that there's only one CB that's having such practises....of offering a certificate of approval with validity period of more than 3 years...in fact is 9 years or more.....

We have enquire the supplier on this and they have fax us a copy of the reply from their CB claiming this practise was legitimate as long as yearly surveillance to be carried out. Hence, this sounds odd. Are they correct? It seems to be in conflict with what Randy is saying.... We are lost, how could a CB accredited by UKAS do this?

It's seems like what Sidney saying it's correct, UKAS is losing it shine......

BTW, here's the link to one of them...see their ISO 9001 certificate http://www.nasbm.com/main.html

 

[Lyregi - 2010]

Well, it seems to me that the accreditation body and certification body themselves aren't practising what has been preached afterall.

 

[Colin]

I agree with the concerns raised here about the lack of a 3 year expiry date on certificates, it is something that has bothered me for a while. It is especially problematic when you stand in front of a group of people and tell them what the rules say and then they hold up a certificate which contradicts that.

I wonder if we are still seeing the 'roll out' of ISO 17021? Am I right in thinking that it was only implemented 'relatively' recently? If so, it could be that the effects of the old style of working are still being seen and once each organisation has been through its annual cycle, these problems will disappear.

 

[Paul Simpson]

Why is everyone throwing their hands up at the idea of a certificate of registration without an expiry date?

I remember when working at BSI fighting a rearguard action against the rest of the industry who wanted to impose it on us.

If a certification body is able to demonstrate through a thorough continuing assessment programme that a certified organization's management system is operating effectively then why, artificially impose an expiry date?

The end of the argument is upon us shortly as ISO IEC 17021 now requires it - but let's not forget this is a "standard" written by the industry for the industry - there is no particular justification behind it - or as I commented at a recent UK meeting discussing 17021: "It is a badly written standard developed on the basis of mutual mistrust."

Re 17021: the IAF transition period is 2 years - see UKAS letter here.

Next question - why three year re-certification?

BTW my CB offers 3 yearly recertification currently.

 

[tyker]

I largely agree with you, Paul but times change.

In the good old days, organizations were issued with a single, paper certificate that was relatively easy to grab back when necessary. Now, I don't get a hard copy at all, it's downloaded from a web site and I can hide as many electronic copies as I want. Most customers are probably too lazy to check with the issuing CB on the validity of the cert so they could easily be duped.

Not that I would, of course.

Unless I was really desperate.

 

[Sidney Vianna]

If a certification body is able to demonstrate through a thorough continuing assessment programme that a certified organization's management system is operating effectively then why, artificially impose an expiry date?

While I agree that many of the accreditation rules are full of anachronisms and belong to a distant past, rules should not apply only to a few, but all. The current rules mandate certificates to have an expiry date. Failure to comply with it should bring action from the AB's.

 

[JRKH]

Hi Covers,

Recently I came accross some certificate from the suppliers issued by some local CB which lasted for more than 9 years.

Now the question, is this valid and do you ever come accross with it?

How do you deal with it?

thanks.....

Having read through the responses, let us cut to the chase.

OK, your supplier has an "unusual" certificate. Why should we care? A quick call to the CB will assure that the certificate was issued validly. Whether the recert expiry date is technically valid or not is far less of an issue.

From a customer standpoint I am much more interested the suppliers quality record than in his certificate. What is this level of incoming quality? How about their response to problems? Is their pricing, and delivery acceptable?

If these are acceptable then I might make a call to validate the cert and move on. And I would only do that to prevent a possible question by my auditor regarding the non-standard date.

After all the cert in my file is just a tiny aspect of vendor control.The only reason we look for a copy of the cert at all is to keep us from having to audit the supplier ourselves. The cert demonstrates that someone else is doing that for us.

I wouldn't want to get hung up on it.

James