Evidence of Disposition and Disposal of Quality and Related Records

B
#1
Evidence of Records disposition?

:bigwave: Do we have to have evidence of records already disposed, I mean like a sheet that tells when a specific record was destroyed or something like that? I'm asking this because in the company I'm working now the procedure specifies that and I really would like to get rid of that requirement..what do you think?:ko:
 
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E

energy

#2
My opinion.

BEKY
Ours says we shred all obsolete documents, period. When you look at revision history for a particular document, there's the date you shredded it. JMHO
 
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M

Michael T

#3
Records Disposal

Hi Beky...

ISO 9001:1994 and 2000 specifies that documented procedures be maintained for disposition of quality records, but does not specify that records be maintained of the disposition of quality records. However it is probably prudent to maintain records of disposal.

Our records retention/disposition system is set up in such a way that a report of records requiring destruction is generated each month for each department. Upon destruction (shredding if hard copy, deletion from the computer if a data file) of the particular records, the person who has responsibility for those records signs off that they were destroyed. This is maintained by the QA Department as evidence of records disposal.

Hope this helps!!

Cheers!
 

Marc

Hunkered Down for the Duration
Staff member
Admin
#4
ISO 9001 doesn't but QS-9000 does require you to specify disposal method, as I remember.
 
E

energy

#5
Shred it!

Here's the actual way it's written in our Document Revision Control procedure. I also send a document acknowledgement sheet for sign off with the obsolete document returned to me for disposal. Another reason we do that is because people have pulled the wrong page out and trashed it.

5.4.2 Quality documentation surpassed by a revision or replaced with another document shall be returned to the Quality Assurance Department in accordance with Quality Procedure QAP-205-04, Document Administration and Control, and a copy may be retained as a record, if deemed necessary, in an archive in a labeled file to ensure that these documents are secured from use.

5.4.3 Obsolete documents not required for archive purposes shall be immediately destroyed by shredding.:smokin:
 
M

Michael T

#6
I Don't Trust Them That Far...

That sounds good Energy, I wish I could trust them to do that. :rolleyes:

When we have a controlled document change, either myself or my cohort in crime will personally remove obsolete documents and replace them with the new revision and destroy the old rev. Luckily we have a relatively small shop (150 employees) so this doesn't take too long. On the other hand, when it comes to the Quality Record, I have faith in those people assigned to maintain those files - so when records are disposed of, I know they are done properly.

Cheers!
 

gpainter

Quite Involved in Discussions
#7
We are ISO 9002 and have set minimum retention times for all our QMS records. Have had no problem to date. The question is "What does your QMS require of you?"
 
B
#8
Records not documents!

Thanks for your comments guys, Energy: I have the impression that you are only looking the documentation side of it, what I'm talking about is more of quality recors such as inspection sheets, from 2 years ago for example, that certain department has to dispose every year and maybe (Not sure yet) live evidence of the date those were disposed.. get it?:rolleyes:
 
E

energy

#9
I think I got it!

Beky,
When I say documentation I refer to all documents. If for some reason, though I don't know why, you say you destroy documentation every two years, of course I would ask the same thing. How do you prove it? Well, if I couldn't see that particular document with a date that exceeds 2 years, what's the problem. Most companies say they retain files for a pre-determined time, so if they are there longer, who cares? I don't understand the requirement or logic. Help me out here!:smokin:
 

Marc

Hunkered Down for the Duration
Staff member
Admin
#10
Sometimes it's legal issues at the heart of it, but this is mostly with respect to records as opposed to documents (e.g. procedures). I suspect this is where the confusion comes in within this thread - most folks saw DOCUMENT instead of RECORD in the original post.. I go into some detail about the distinction between 'documents' and 'records' in my Implementing ISO files set.

With either records or 'documents' - if one of your procedures says you're going to keep a specific document (or record) for a specific time and then you will destroy it you are bound by your procedure, not ISO. As I said - I haven't seen this used with documents (destroy by date). It is extremely common with records.

Most companies keep certain records for a certain time. Some records are kept for legal reasons (for example in a transportation, copies of drivers logs are kept for a certain period of time by federal law). I have seen some smaller companies that had 30 or 40 years of records, to the extreme.

Now - why the big deal if you keep it longer than you say you will? It's not a matter of logic. It's a matter of how you wrote your procedure. If you say you'll do this you don't have a choice. You can avoid this if your procedure is worded along the lines of defining a minimum retention time while stating that there is no maximum retention time.

> Do we have to have evidence of records already disposed, I
> mean like a sheet that tells when a specific record was
> destroyed or something like that?

Not that I am aware of.

> it is probably prudent to maintain records of disposal.

This is a good idea in some companies. In others it is vast overkill. If you're a manufacturer of medical devices this is probably more important than if your company injection molds toy dolls for Cracker Jack boxes.

Beky - If you're talking ISO, reword your procedure for the disposal of quality records and get on with life. If you are QS the extended requirements take precedence and require that you define a destruction method and timeframe. The sheet is not necessary as evidence. The absence of records beyond the specified time is your proof. However, again I caution you... Each company is different. Make sure what you do is appropriate for YOUR company.
 
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