Executive Management Participation in Internal Audits

S

somebodystopme

#1
I work as an Internal Auditor for a Pipe Manufacturing Company. The President has mandated that his direct reports participate in the internal audit process. I would like to ask for ideas as to how and what one of these managers could do to participate, other than actually auditing. They will be with the audit team typically for half day on the last day and will be in closing meeting.
 
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Coury Ferguson

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Super Moderator
#2
I work as an Internal Auditor for a Pipe Manufacturing Company. The President has mandated that his direct reports participate in the internal audit process. I would like to ask for ideas as to how and what one of these managers could do to participate, other than actually auditing. They will be with the audit team typically for half day on the last day and will be in closing meeting.
In my opinion, their participation would be the same as the Management Representative, an observer to gain insight from the personnel performing the process.

Yes they could actually perform an audit as long as they are competent and trained, again my opinion.
 
#3
I work as an Internal Auditor for a Pipe Manufacturing Company. The President has mandated that his direct reports participate in the internal audit process. I would like to ask for ideas as to how and what one of these managers could do to participate, other than actually auditing. They will be with the audit team typically for half day on the last day and will be in closing meeting.
Great! I wish all top management would make this a requirement. But then I'm wondering why you didn't involve them before! Why did it take the boss to 'mandate it'? How were you doing audits before, if you didn't make them part fo the process? I bet they don't go willingly, now.......

Seriously, you can make them part of the planning and preparation process. First, stop shoving an annualized schedule of audits at them. Get with them and make the audit of their process an opportunity to a) confirm (validate) that their process is working as required or b) work with them to focus on their process and any performance issues they are concerned about (which is more likely to be the case).

Most folks implement audits in the way that external audits are done and it doesn't work that effectively! You have to take the audit to management as a tool they can use to help them get a different view of their process and any potential issues, so that they will understand - and welcome - the hepl the get in diagnosing areas of concern. Forget reporting 'ISO' stuff and make it a business performance issue.....
 
J

JaneB

#4
I'm with Andy - how wonderful! I too wish all top management would make this mandatory.

I can't really add much to what he's said other than yes, work with them - get them involved! What are they concerned about/what do they care about? What kinds of managers are they - what are their fields of responsibility? For example, imagine how wonderful if a senior exec of sales were able to say to potential customers 'I've been at the coalface and seen what our people do - when we audit, we even look at ...' etc.

It IS a business performance issue!
 

Randy

Super Moderator
#5
Unless there is a real commitment on their part it's just gonna be a "face-time" exercise and if they have to be ordered to participate be prepared to do the farce dance.

I just experienced this exact scenario this week....:frust:
 
J

JaneB

#6
Unless there is a real commitment on their part it's just gonna be a "face-time" exercise and if they have to be ordered to participate be prepared to do the farce dance.

I just experienced this exact scenario this week....:frust:
True, alas.

Jeepers, Randy, don't you ever sleep either?
 
#7
Unless there is a real commitment on their part it's just gonna be a "face-time" exercise and if they have to be ordered to participate be prepared to do the farce dance.

I just experienced this exact scenario this week....:frust:
True, but I believe that commitment comes from understanding and that often comes from involvement. Too many auditors carp and moan about 'management' and how they don't get it, don't support audit findings and corrective action etc. Well, often audit program managers are just expecting too much and do little or nothing to help management 'get it'. To use a hackneyed phrase - "If you always do...."

So auditors must embrass management and their issues and stop hanging on to standards, manuals, procedures etc as if they are the 'safety grab-handles' of the audit. Step out from between the 'lines' and try looking at this with your (audit) customer.....you (and they) might actually like it!
 

Jen Kirley

Quality and Auditing Expert
Staff member
Admin
#8
I also think it's wonderful to have upper management get a close up look. I hope there's no intent to have unqualified, perhaps agenda-driven people audit though. So they should be participants (more difficult to manage) or observers (easier to manage, but harder to keep them interested).

The key is to make the audit meaningful. What will they be interested in? Probably effectiveness, especially where their own people may be stakeholders, and likely profitability. So the audit can be designed to address those things directly, using plain language and avoiding a lot of jargon and standards qualityspeak.

Readiness of inputs and people to receive them, efficiency of operations in the process, the effects problems have on profits or even that manager's own performance metrics, risks to customer retention and yes, even quality of work life are all on the table for good managers. If you try, you can turn a compliance audit into a performance audit that will help keep the management interested in the process goings-on and doing things well (my definition of quality) and it can make you look really good too. Of course, as Randy has so rightly pointed out, all depends on the managers' attitudes. :cfingers:
 
J

JaneB

#9
I believe that commitment comes from understanding and that often comes from involvement. Too many auditors carp and moan about 'management' and how they don't get it, don't support audit findings and corrective action etc. Well, often audit program managers are just expecting too much and do little or nothing to help management 'get it'. To use a hackneyed phrase - "If you always do...."

So auditors must embrace management and their issues and stop hanging on to standards, manuals, procedures etc as if they are the 'safety grab-handles' of the audit. !
Well put, Andy and excellent advice. :applause::applause::applause:

Too often management is ignored, or criticised, and 'quality' personnel do not do enough to promote communication and understanding.

I've seen some formerly very negative re. quality management change their attitude completely when this kind of approach was used. eg, ensuring that their agenda and that of 'quality' were aligned, or when auditors started providing reports of more use to management. This thread is a great example of what can happen when someone uses this kind of approach.
 
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