Experience with Multiple Sites Operating Under One ISO Certificate?

[fireonce]

1)Not absolutely,you can prepare documents for some site,but it's difficult to manage
2)The registrar determine how much time to take according to the complication of each site,such as ISO9000 related clause, department,and function,...;and he has to visit all sites.

 

[JaneB]

That would have been a big job to get all in place, particularly with no doco to start with - congratulations on such a major achievement. It can be a massive job creating & running a single system across multiple sites/organisations, whether in the same state/country/region or not.

After 3 rounds of audits and absolutely no findings we dropped our certification - wasn't helping us overcome the differences that management knew were there but "outsiders' couldn't find.

Understandable. One wants to be getting value from the certification. But it certainly sounds as though the business knows where it's going and how it wants to be.

Re. the 'single certificate' per site, my experience is that it also requires a lot from the certifier/registrar. If they don't do their job of coordinating and managing at their end - and making sure that someone (a single someone) manages things, then you their customer can end up with multiple different auditors and many different views & many different reports, which can be less than helpful. I'm dealing with the end result of such a set of circumstances at the moment.

Thanks for sharing your experience.

 

[Crusader]

Hi all,
Has anyone had any experience with operating multiple company sites under one ISO certification? I am curious as to how standardization works across multiple sites, especially when the products and processes may be very different between them. A few questions that come to mind, are:
1) Do they have to share all ISO documentation or can they have site unique documents?
2) How does the registrar determine how much time to spend at each site...or does he even have to visit all sites?

I'm looking for any advice you might have on how to successfully manage remote sites under one QMS.

Thanks,
Kim

Has anyone had any experience with operating multiple company sites under one ISO certification? Yes, we have 6 different divisions/sites under 1 certificate.

1) Do they have to share all ISO documentation or can they have site unique documents? Some documents are global and some are site specific.
2) How does the registrar determine how much time to spend at each site...or does he even have to visit all sites? The registrar visits each site on a rotational schedule. Although, some things are required to be audited every visit.

I'm looking for any advice you might have on how to successfully manage remote sites under one QMS. It is a little bit of a challenge but with a good foundation for Doc Control, Corrective Action, etc. you can manage it all easier than you might think.

I run the entire QMS for all sites/divisions totaling about 700+ people. I do not have a team or a Dept working for me nor an assigned person to help at each of these sites. My secret, the foundation of the system must be able to stand on it's own. The people who follow the documentation are the ones who wrote that documentation. I took their words, made sure it met ISO 9001:2000 and documented it, controlled it, and distributed it. All I do is audit it and make sure they follow it and provide suggestions for improvement as best I can.
Does this help?

 

[Helmut Jilling]

... One surveillance audit found some issues which we addressed fairly easily. We passed our first certification audit (complete audit of 4 sites) with out any nonconformances or even concerns. Don't know how that could have happened because many sites were still doing things "their own way", but our internal audits were addressing those problems so I guess they figured we had it handled. The structure of the system seemed to overwhelm our third party auditors. After 3 rounds of audits (they always did HG then choose different sites) and absolutely no findings we dropped our certification - wasn't helping us overcome the differences that management knew were there but "outsiders' couldn't find.

....

Doesn't sound like you had a very good audit team. Your solution sounds like it is working, but there are also many good registrars and auditors who can understand and do provide much value.

 

[potdar]

Many have commented on the difficulties / ease / power that can be wielded ..

Just as a starter I just cant resist putting down some of my experiences of auditing / certifying companies in a similar situation. I am not drawing any conclusions from this. Everyone can draw their own conclusions.

One large multinational has 6 of their plants under the same certificate. I did an expansion audit to include one more site. Smooth.

Another large industrial group here. They have thirteen of their companies (making different products with different collaborators - all basically for the steam / pressure vessel industry) certified under a common certificate. Smooth.

A third multinational, with all of their 15 odd sites certified separately for 9000, 14000, 18000 (about 45 odd certificates) by one of our competitors (equally globally reputed) had invited competitive tenders for four of their new sites. We go in with our quotes. Lo and behold, they already have certificates on the table issued by our competitors. No audits conducted.

Two large companies in the same product space certified by us. There is a merger. Organisational restructuring follows. Now they have many common 'corporate' functions. Surveillance takes place for both. Both are having differnt QMS. None is followed. What do you think happens? None is put on probation!

So many more could follow.

You are welcome to draw your own conclusions. This is not a post on the 'how and what' part. Just something I couldnt resist.

 

[Anerol C]

Advantages and Disadvantages with one ISO certificate to multiple sites?

Hi to All,

I would like to know about your experience with Advantages Vs Disadvantages to have one certificate for multiple site.
I'm working on a plant trying to implement ISO 9000 when I started we were get certified as one entitite, now corporate wants that 3 plants are certified under a same certificate. We develped a Quality Manual, Quality policy which is posted everywhere, know we need to change the Quality policy & quality objectives and procedure templates and aligning the six mandatory procedures to corporate.
By the other hand they want to have the 3rd party audit for Jan 2008, but I don't think we are prepared for it.
Operation director has asked me to provide a report with advantages and disadvantages so he can present that information to his boss, but I don't know how to start.
Any advice I will appreciate it.
Anerol C

 

[qualityboi]

We maintain one certificate for 2 plants in the U.S., Italy, Singapore, Japan, and Puerto Rico and a design center in Europe.
First it is easy to maintain one quality manual and one corporate group (to which I belong) instead of maintaining many manuals and separate resources for internal audits. Its a big cost saver over time as the registrar will audit all the sites on the initial registration but spread out the surveillance audits so only one site is audited every three years. We worked out an ASRP (Advanced Surveillance and Reassessment Protocall/Process) with our registrar.
The quality manual is designed to document corporate quality requirements it is very generic and high level much like the standard itself. In absence of each site not meeting the six or seven (if your ISO/TS) required procedures the generic corporate procedure has been created and maintained is followed by the sites lacking the procedure. We have to do it this way as different sites have different regulations, statues and laws, as well as certain cultural differences.

 

[Stijloor]

Re: Advantages and Disadvantages with one ISO certificate to multiple sites?

Hi to All,

I would like to know about your experience with Advantages Vs Disadvantages to have one certificate for multiple site.
I'm working on a plant trying to implement ISO 9000 when I started we were get certified as one entitite, now corporate wants that 3 plants are certified under a same certificate. We developed a Quality Manual, Quality policy which is posted everywhere, know we need to change the Quality policy & quality objectives and procedure templates and aligning the six mandatory procedures to corporate.
By the other hand they want to have the 3rd party audit for Jan 2008, but I don't think we are prepared for it.
Operation director has asked me to provide a report with advantages and disadvantages so he can present that information to his boss, but I don't know how to start.
Any advice I will appreciate it.
Anerol C

Hello Anerol,

Some thoughts....

• The biggest advantage of a corporate certification scheme is cost savings. You may want to get some proposals from your Registrar/CB (or perhaps a few other reputable Registrars/CB's) and compare.
• The biggest risk is that if one location "messes up", then the registration status of all locations is in danger.
• In a corporate QMS scenario, many resources can be standardized and shared between all locations.
• You only need one Management Representative.
• The internal audit process can be shared.
• Etc.

You decide what's best.

Stijloor.

 

[Anerol C]

Re: Advantages and Disadvantages with one ISO certificate to multiple sites?

[*]The biggest advantage of a corporate certification scheme is cost savings.
[*]The biggest risk is that if one location "messes up", then the registration status of all locations is in danger.
[*]

I think the cost savings is the reason that corporate decided to work on one same certificate.
I am affraid about Jan 2008 audit we still need more time to fix all the Non conformancies found during the internal audits. I don't think we are prepared for a 3rd. party audit. What is the worst scenario that you will see??
Anerol C

 

[Stijloor]

Re: Advantages and Disadvantages with one ISO certificate to multiple sites?

What is the worst scenario that you will see??
Anerol C

Major nonconformities resulting in not being recommended for registration/certification.

Stijloor.