Expiration Dates On Certifications

[JodiB]

Martin,

I as well can only comment on what I've seen. As I stated previously, not all LRQA certifications were traditional - the QS ones were all done under a continuous scheme. In fact, any certification that was done under RAB, and RAB only, could have the continuous approval option. Few clients chose it because it resulted in savings for only the smallest of companies and it was not aggressively marketed because it was a pill to administer.

And yes, one could make a point that there is an "expiration" of the previous three year certification period. The three year certification period is a requirement; what is not a requirement (by RAB) is that it has to be done at one visit. The continuous surveillance/approval option simply adds additional time to each surveillance visit in order to "re-assess" one sixth of the system. In this way, after three years and 6 visits, the system is said to have undergone not only routine surveillance but also an entire reassessment.

The expiration date on the certificate then indicates the beginning and ending of each three year certification period. Which is the proper way to do it IMHO and as others have pointed out, less confusing and bothersome to outside parties. Registrars who try to save a little cash by not sending fresh certificates every three years aren't doing their customers any favors.

Back to Charlie's question: QS approvals fell under the continuous approval scheme no matter which registrar performed the work. There are a couple of registrars that don't put expiration dates on any of their certs, whether they are continuous approval or traditional surveillance. This can obviously be a problem to the consumer and is also a problem to other registrars when the approval is switched. (come to think of it, maybe that's why they do it!

 

[Sidney Vianna]

Yes and no

Lucinda,

You are correct. The continuous certification scheme is just a gimick in order to minimize certified organiations to shop around for another registrar. The time of the certificate expiration normally triggers certified companies to "shop around" . . .

But you are incorrect about the recertification audit being dispersed in the surveillance audits. There is a RAB letter that I had attached to a message under the "3-year reassessment required thread" that makes it VERY clear that a "re-certification" audit IS MANDATORY by all Registrars accredited under an IAF endorsed AB. And extending the surveillance audits IS NOT acceptable.

The Cove system does not allow me to post the same document twice, so if anyone is interested in seeing that RAB letter, they will have to go to the other thread.

 

[M Greenaway]

Can anyone explain what the CB's do at the six monthly surveillance visits when auditing to a 3 yearly renewal plan ?

I thought this also was an assessment of a sixth of the system ?

If not what else is it an assessment of ?

 

[JodiB]

Re: Yes and no

Sidney Vianna said:
But you are incorrect about the recertification audit being dispersed in the surveillance audits. There is a RAB letter that I had attached to a message under the "3-year reassessment required thread" that makes it VERY clear that a "re-certification" audit IS MANDATORY by all Registrars accredited under an IAF endorsed AB. And extending the surveillance audits IS NOT acceptable.

The Cove system does not allow me to post the same document twice, so if anyone is interested in seeing that RAB letter, they will have to go to the other thread.

Sidney,

Then things changed in the two years after I left the registrar, because when I was there it was the way I described it. RAB had interpreted the reassessement requirement differently from the other members of IAF and allowed the continuous approval surveillance option. And continuous surveillances were definitely extended to allow for a partial reassessment at each surveillance visit. And it was for that reason that the technical paperwork had to be reviewed following each visit.

If it is different now, then it is different now. There were rumors back then that continous was going away, but QS required a continuous, so what was to be done? But if continuous approval has passed by the wayside, then no one has it and there is no justification for someone to have a cert with no expiration date.

 

[M Greenaway]

Did I mention we currently have continuous assessment for QS9000, and our cert from BSi has no expiration date ??

 

[Sam]

And by the time you sift through the muck and mire of standards, specification, accreditation specification and individual registrar interpretations you find that the only reason for a three certification is to guarantee the registrar picks up the next contract. Nothing more, nothing less.

 

[M Greenaway]

Sounds more like it Sam

 

[JodiB]

M Greenaway said:

Did I mention we currently have continuous assessment for QS9000, and our cert from BSi has no expiration date ??

Then I guess it didn't go away after all and it still continues the way I described it. So what is it that you are trying to tell us Sidney?

 

[Sidney Vianna]

I believe the document is VERY clear. it CLEARLY states that a rte-assessment is MANDATORY.

It is mute however about certificate expiration dates.

Since this is an IAF policy, ALL accredited certificationuilt schemes must have a re-assessment built-in.

 

[JodiB]

But Sydney, as Martin has said, he has the continuous surveillance option!

RAB was the last bastion for this option, and if they have abandoned it and joined up with the other members of the IAF, then is his registrar just in plain outright violation??