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Extent of information required in COC (aka C of C and Certificate of Conformance)

J

Joy

#1
#1
I need advice from our friends with expertise in special processes specifically chromating as per MIL-C-5541 Class A.The process is outsourced to a Honeywell approved special process source (also NADCAP certified) by the organisation.The organisation does not supply parts directly to Honeywell.The organisation gets PO from a customer which in turn supply to Honeywell.This organisation asks for COC with finished product.So, it asks for COC when it sends machined parts for choramating, mentioning the spec requirement of the drawing.When the special process source returns the parts it gives COC but without any mention of test results of two process control tests- Corrosion resistance and adhesion test.
To carry out these tests there are two options-for each batch and monthly test.In this case it is understood that these are not done for the batch.So,in this situation would the organisation be responsible to check the results of last monthly check and get the record?
When the organisation submits the COC of chromating along with the final product,it submit only first page of COC and this does not mention the tests carried out and the results found.
My questions
1.Does the organisation need to mention details of COC data requirement in PO and also ensure that results of these tests are submitted?
2.As the organisation's customer is accepting the lot with first page of COC (without details of tests carried out and resuts found),can the organisation absolve the responsibility of ensuring all tests carried out and required results obtained?
3.Shall the COC contain only Pass/Fail information or the test data also?To what extent for this process.
Thanks in advance
 
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S

silentrunning

#2
#2
Re: Extent of information required in COC

I have found that the best source of information on this topic is my customer. First, check the Purchase Order. Second, check their Vendor Quality Requirements. If there is no useful information in either place, then I would go to the buyer. Each company has its own requirements and even they can vary with personnel.
 
B

Bogie

#3
#3
Re: Extent of information required in COC

I'm with LabTechnician, check the PO and any other documents submitted with it. If that doesn't specify, go back to the customer. Just because customer is accepting the CofC's front page only doesn't mean they won't come back for more in-depth information later - and later is not the time to figure out that you should have had more (don't ask me how I know, just trust that I have good reason to say that).
 
D

dv8shane

#4
#4
Re: Extent of information required in COC (Certificate of Conformance)

Joy said:
I need advice from our friends with expertise in special processes specifically chromating as per MIL-C-5541 Class A.The process is outsourced to a Honeywell approved special process source (also NADCAP certified) by the organisation.TWhen the special process source returns the parts it gives COC but without any mention of test results of two process control tests- Corrosion resistance and adhesion test.
To carry out these tests there are two options-for each batch and monthly test.In this case it is understood that these are not done for the batch.So,in this situation would the organisation be responsible to check the results of last monthly check and get the record?
When the organisation submits the COC of chromating along with the final product,it submit only first page of COC and this does not mention the tests carried out and the results found.
My questions
1.Does the organisation need to mention details of COC data requirement in PO and also ensure that results of these tests are submitted?
2.As the organisation's customer is accepting the lot with first page of COC (without details of tests carried out and resuts found),can the organisation absolve the responsibility of ensuring all tests carried out and required results obtained?
3.Shall the COC contain only Pass/Fail information or the test data also?To what extent for this process.
Thanks in advance
Click to expand...
First I do not have a copy of the standard.
Next are your customer requirements driven by the standard? Do they require NADCAP which also implies AMS2750D certification of the parts being chromated Have they defined what is acceptable in writing?

In answer to your questions in my opinion

1. It is your organization's responsibility to ask for data if you think it is necessary or if the standard requires it. If you doubt your supplier ask for an on site audit.

2. You are not absolved of providing conforming sub contracted services unless you have a written customer concession on file. I would also investigate local statutory regulations.

3. This is determined by your customer requirements and or the standard the parts are being done under. Does it specifically identify the standard on the COC with Pass/Fail and the test conditions etc?
 
J

Jeff Frost

#5
#5
Re: Extent of information required in COC (Certificate of Conformance)

First we must understand what a Certificate of Conformance is. A "C of C" is nothing more than a suppliers written and signed statement certifying that the supplies, material or service comply with the customers purchase order requirements and nothing more. Most organizations will list the customers part number, revision, purchase order number and applicable standard on this C of C.

In your case, your supplier would issue a C of C stating they have met your PO requirements for the product or service you are purchasing from them based on the requirement listed. If your PO does not flow down your customer requirements and/or you are not formally requesting a material test report listing physical and chemical results or Certificate of Analysis (C of A) then they are not under any obligation to give you this information no matter who the ultimate end user may be. They can't read your mined or guess what is required based on a name of the end user. It should also be noted that C of C are usually free but C of A's or Test Reports with actuals are always at an additional charge.

hope this helps.
 
M

milind dhakad

#6
#6
Re: Extent of information required in COC (Certificate of Conformance)

Dear Cove member
I have one customer requirement to pass our product against c4 class corrosion so i have Zn plating.powder coating ,anodizing treatment in the product so can anybody share with me the acceptance creteria for all above process to withstand in C4 class corrosion enviroment
 
J

Jeff Frost

#7
#7
Re: Extent of information required in COC (Certificate of Conformance)

The requirements would be stated in applicable specification sighted by the customer on their drawing or PO. If this information was not supplied by them then make a written request that they specify the specification this requirement is located. If they cannot or will not supply this information then take exception to the this item
 
S

SvanRaay

#8
#8
ive worked in several plating shops and the certifications vary from one facilty to another.

i have never worked for a facility that has included testing information on the C of C unless it was specified in addition to the process on a purchase order. when you certify that parts were processed in accordance with MIL-C-5541 Cl 1A, that means it is acceptable with all acceptance and periodic process controls.

the real answer though, should be found in your contract or purchase order. that will specify if any special information needs to be on the certificate of conformance.
 
Jim Wynne

Jim Wynne

Staff member
Admin
#9
#9
Re: Extent of information required in COC (Certificate of Conformance)

milind dhakad said:
Dear Cove member
I have one customer requirement to pass our product against c4 class corrosion so i have Zn plating.powder coating ,anodizing treatment in the product so can anybody share with me the acceptance creteria for all above process to withstand in C4 class corrosion enviroment
Click to expand...
Unless I'm mistaken, the "C4" refers to a class of corrosion resistance described in an ISO standard. It's roughly equivalent to the "Service Condition" (SC) categories in ASTM B633 (a standard for zinc plating). If the customer hasn't specified a particular standard, that's what you need to ask for. Just asking for "C4" protection isn't enough.

ETA: I see, after posting, :read: that Jeff Frost gave essentially the same answer. When in doubt, ask the customer.
 
M

milind dhakad

#10
#10
Re: Extent of information required in COC (Certificate of Conformance)

Dear Mr. Jeff
Thanks for reply
I have already in touch with cusotmer and he gave the acceptance criteria for power coating process (1500 Hr salt spray life )
NOw i have to follow the same for powder coating process but does salt spray life and C4 class product withstand are related or not??
Because as per my knowedge you cant get 1500 hr salt spary life in Zn electoplating process
So what is right method to check that our product can withstand C4 class is Salt spray life or surface treatment process
like If Salt spray 1500 Hrs is standard then we cant get is by anodising or Zn platting and if it is process spcific then does power coated part and Zn plated part can be compaired to withstand same corrosive enviroment
So pls need your comments on that but finally we have to follow the customer requirement only ,it is clear to me
Thanks
 
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