External Audit CAR when Internal Audit CAR is in process?

A

amanbhai

#1
I have a non conformity which i have riased in the internal audit, but in the external assessment the lead auditor has riased CAR when we were already working on it.
My question is "is it technically justifiable to riase CAR when it has already been riased in the internal audit & work has already been started on that?
 
Elsmar Forum Sponsor

Colin

Quite Involved in Discussions
#5
I agree with Fireonce, the severity of the problem must come into this. e.g. if no management review had taken place for a year but you raised it as an NC during the internal audit, should the external auditor accept that as being OK?
 

Randy

Super Moderator
#8
OK...you had already found a NC and had started the formal CA process?

During an external assessment the auditor issued you a NC for the same situation?

Low hanging fruit my friend. The auditor would have been more appropriate to address the CA process and not the NC.

Reminds me of a bunch of cops writing individual tickets to one guy running the same stop sign during a chase.

I'd contest the NC. Just make sure that action is actually being performed for the CAR.
 
S

skappesser

#9
Whether or not it is technically justifiable depends on your auditor / registrar. I have dealt with many in the last 20 years - all are on a case-by-case basis. Some auditors believe that when you present your organization for audit, it is assumed to comply 100% to the Standard for which it is being audited. If they find a nonconformance, they issue a finding. Other auditors will let you slide if they see that you are aware of the nonconformance and working on it or at least have a plan and schedule.

Also may depend upon the severity of the nonconformance. Building on Randy's metaphor: If several police officers see you run a red light during a chase, only one will give the ticket while the others watch (and eat donuts). If several police officer see you shooting a cop during the chase they will all drop their donuts and all shoot you back with vigor...
 
Thread starter Similar threads Forum Replies Date
A External Audit CAR on Record Control? General Measurement Device and Calibration Topics 6
L IATF external audit virtual (remote) IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 13
R External Audit and Certificate prorogation due to the pandemic General Auditing Discussions 10
N Audit non-compliance API Q1 - Use of External Documents 4.4.4 in Product Realization Oil and Gas Industry Standards and Regulations 8
I What kind of wine best complements the Friday that you close out your external audit findings? Opinions are welcome. Coffee Break and Water Cooler Discussions 12
B Using external FDA and ISO 13485 audit as internal audit Internal Auditing 6
qualprod The Perfect audit? External Audit causes a significant negative impact in a company General Auditing Discussions 9
B How to reply NCR on ineffectiveness of corrective action during IATF external audit? This is repeated issue whereby some mistake was done. IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 7
B IATF 16949 7.1.5.3.2 FAQ #7 Audit Finding - External Calibration Laboratory IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 7
P IATF checklist for External Supplier Audit IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 9
J Ignoring a Failed Gage R&R and upcoming external audit IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 22
B Integrating ISO 9001/27001 External Audits - Audit Time Reduced? Discounts? ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 4
J Corrective Action for External Audit NCMR (Procedure Not Followed) ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 6
Q Effectiveness Plan for CAPA initiated from External Audit US Food and Drug Administration (FDA) 3
P Is Internal and external audit of Account Department applicable to any ISO standard Internal Auditing 5
R Can a external auditor raise a finding that is already identified in Internal Audit ? ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 11
R Root Cause for "Simple" External Audit Findings ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 10
M Internal Audit finding versus External Audit finding General Auditing Discussions 2
drgnrider Control of External Audit Notes and Documents Document Control Systems, Procedures, Forms and Templates 8
L Mock Audit by External Consultant (ISO 13485) 21 CFR Part 820 - US FDA Quality System Regulations (QSR) 8
R External Audit Attendees - Surveillance Audit Quality Manager and Management Related Issues 27
Q External ISO 14001 Audit in a Distribution Center ISO 14001:2015 Specific Discussions 3
R QMS changes before Annual External Audit Quality Manager and Management Related Issues 8
M External Audit Findings - TS 16949 IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 3
B Audit of equipment after certified external calibration... ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 3
M What to do during a Stage 1 External Audit? AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 8
D Having trouble with corrective action on external audit nonconformance Nonconformance and Corrective Action 8
V Most Common Internal/External Audit Observations on Risk Management ISO 14971 - Medical Device Risk Management 4
S Internal and External Audit Programme Implementation Internal Auditing 6
C No findings from External Audit - Should I be worried? General Auditing Discussions 7
K External Auditor asking for other Audit Findings ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 36
S Dreading an Ineffective External Audit and the impact it will have on staff General Auditing Discussions 1
Chennaiite External Audit re-defined Imported Legacy Blogs 4
A Need to Audit an External Calibration Laboratory? - Customer Audit Finding Other Medical Device Regulations World-Wide 5
J Withdraw NCR Request - External QMS Audit is In Progress General Auditing Discussions 23
S Customer Audit needs to see External Supplier Management Procedure Supplier Quality Assurance and other Supplier Issues 7
B Critical Action Limits (CAL) for All Internal and External Audit Findings General Auditing Discussions 17
S External Audit Non-Conformance - Control Plan and Inspection Issues IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 1
S External Auditor Findings when an Internal Audit found a Nonconformance Yesterday Document Control Systems, Procedures, Forms and Templates 11
Chennaiite Questions on the Scope of Remote Locations for the ISO/TS External Audit IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 7
R ISO 9001 Internal Quality Audit by Consultants (External agency) Internal Auditing 5
A What happens if an External Audit NC (Nonconformance) is not closed in 90 days? ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 6
J Escalation of an External Audit Nonconformance Nonconformance and Corrective Action 13
M Giving copy of external audit report to customer General Auditing Discussions 20
S External Audit - Nonconformance Root causes ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 23
L Human Resources Officer is absent during an ISO 9001 External Audit General Auditing Discussions 17
P ISO 13485 Audit - EN 62366:2008 not in External Document File IEC 62366 - Medical Device Usability Engineering 1
E First external audit coming up, do I need to have performed Internal Audits already? Internal Auditing 15
L How to check for validity of registration scope during ISO9001:2008 external audit Quality Manager and Management Related Issues 3
L Preparation for the second year external audit. General Auditing Discussions 8

Similar threads

Top Bottom