External Audits without site visit?

S

sudwel

#11
However, it has been correctly stated as a Registration. If it is an Accreditation, that would be administered by CALA (formerly known as CAEAL) as that is the Canadian AB for environmental. Accreditation would also be to different standards than 9K and 14K. And CALA does require on-site assessment.
It actually is an "Accreditation", according to their handbook - and they don't fall under CALA, as it isn't a laboratory accreditation.

However, the Ministry of the Environment states that the CGSB was selected as their "registrar" - which would infer "registration", similiar to ISO registration - BUT the CGSB refers to themselves as providing "accreditation services" for the "Accreditation Program".

Confusion is going to continue for sometime, I'm thinking!! :confused:

Thanks for everyone's responses, nice to hear that I'm not alone in finding some of their "practices" a little different! (Also, I'm discovering that the vast majority of municipalities have put people into the QMS Representative role that have no quality background, so to them, this is "normal" - including the confusion!! And they are shaking in their boots about the 'big bad auditors' that are going to come - I'm changing their perceptions here at my municipality!!)

Darlene
 
Elsmar Forum Sponsor
S

sudwel

#12
I was actually at a meeting of municipalities back at the end of June, and was talking with some of my colleagues about the Year 2 and 3 surveillance or "desk top" audits - and one of the Utilities who was involved in the pilot study of the DWQMS, and was already accredited, had just undergone a desk top surveillance audit, and stated it was the most useless exercise they had ever gone through (this Utility also happens to be ISO 14000 registered!). Mind you - it could have been the auditor they ended up with - but, she indicated that it was of no value - the only things the auditor picked up on were things that the internal audit team had identified and had already been addressed through their corrective action system.

So - lots of "bugs" to still work out with the new system, as I wait for my auditor to actually finish my initial desk top audit - it's been 3.5 months! :notme:

Darlene
 
Last edited by a moderator:
J

JaneB

#13
Sure... this is normal, and it's typically called, "a desk audit". The scope of their inspection/audit seems to be limited to verifying that a system has been established.
Yes indeedy. Whether it's actually implemented and whether people are actually doing it is, of course, a completely separate question.

Sounds like the answer that an intelligent manager gave me yesterday in an analysis. I asked him if there was an effective system in place for dealing with issues etc (corrective/preventive action etc). He replied that they had a very fine database and a written procedure.

But did anyone use it? No. He said that no one actually used it, but that it looked quite OK from outside.
 

Caster

An Early Cover
Trusted Information Resource
#14
It's a pure political play.

The powers that be can state that they have acted to ensure there will "never be another Wakerton".

A ton of money was paid to develop this "standard".

And it has no prevention focus. Without boots on the ground, you may end up in jail, but only after I die.

I suspect most municipalities paid dearly for a canned system so they are now "good to go". Problem solved.

I just took a big drink of Ontario water, I guess I have to trust you to please do a good job for me!

If the risk is high, you have to go see.

Maybe there was no money to pay for auditors after giving consultants a BILLION dollars to NOT DELIVER the e-health database!

Toyota lives and dies by Go to Gemba. I may die from a lack of it.
 
S

sudwel

#15
I suspect most municipalities paid dearly for a canned system so they are now "good to go". Problem solved.
Surprisingly enough, the majority of the municipalities that I am familiar with did not use a "canned" system or pay a consultant to develop their system for them - they did it themselves (which is also a bit worrisome - as in my limited experience, only 30 to 40% of the people involved in overseeing the QMS at their municipality actually have a quality background - most just have the 2 day course they took to learn about the Standard, and have run with it!):mg: In my 4.5 months here, I've had to clear up my share of fears and misconceptions!!

I just took a big drink of Ontario water, I guess I have to trust you to please do a good job for me!
Definitely!;)

Maybe there was no money to pay for auditors after giving consultants a BILLION dollars to NOT DELIVER the e-health database!
:mad: Hear, hear!!!
 
Thread starter Similar threads Forum Replies Date
J External third party audits Registrars and Notified Bodies 1
R Is it required to have an SOP for external audits? Medical Device and FDA Regulations and Standards News 7
A External Auditor issue with Internal Audits Internal Auditing 7
B Integrating ISO 9001/27001 External Audits - Audit Time Reduced? Discounts? ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 4
G Scope of External & Internal Audits General Auditing Discussions 10
W Hiring an External Auditor to perform our AS9100 Compliance Audits AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 5
G Combining ISO 9001 and TS 16949 External Audits ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 2
S How to quantify the Benefits of Internal and External OHS audits? Occupational Health & Safety Management Standards 4
D External Parties performing Internal Audits? TS 16949 Clause 8.2.2 IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 15
P Can External Audits by Customer be treated As Internal Audits AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 21
E First external audit coming up, do I need to have performed Internal Audits already? Internal Auditing 15
A Audit Database that captures internal, external audits - Prime Part 21 manufacturer Quality Assurance and Compliance Software Tools and Solutions 12
G External Audit Finding - Audits of System Management vs. Process Review ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 5
N Handling External Audits with Internal Vacations General Auditing Discussions 101
B Internal Audits save you from Non-Conformances on external audits? General Auditing Discussions 16
M Preparing for External Audits - Asking Registrar for their Audit Check List(s) Document Control Systems, Procedures, Forms and Templates 19
Crusader Your Internal Audit Team: Internal or Hired External? Outsourcing Internal Audits Internal Auditing 100
Paul Simpson Value Added External Audits - Do External Audits add value to your system? General Auditing Discussions 36
A Meeting the ISO 14001 Periodic Audits Requirement - Internal vs. External Auditing ISO 14001:2015 Specific Discussions 11
J Help settle a disagreement: Should external providers of preventive maintenance be on your ASL? AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 5
J Requirement for Retention of Records of Withdrawn Documents of External Origin Document Control Systems, Procedures, Forms and Templates 3
M Calibration Certificate Result issued by an accredited external laboratory General Measurement Device and Calibration Topics 9
L IATF external audit virtual (remote) IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 13
A IEC 62304 safety classification, External Controls and off-label use related risks IEC 62304 - Medical Device Software Life Cycle Processes 5
R External Audit and Certificate prorogation due to the pandemic General Auditing Discussions 10
N Audit non-compliance API Q1 - Use of External Documents 4.4.4 in Product Realization Oil and Gas Industry Standards and Regulations 8
J 510(k) for a control kit for an external IVD test kit 21 CFR Part 820 - US FDA Quality System Regulations (QSR) 1
Pmarszal External Standards and Regulations Management Process Document Control Systems, Procedures, Forms and Templates 10
I What kind of wine best complements the Friday that you close out your external audit findings? Opinions are welcome. Coffee Break and Water Cooler Discussions 12
B How to apply external voltage to SIP/SOP IEC 60601 - Medical Electrical Equipment Safety Standards Series 2
P Qualifying commercial off the shelf (COTS) external suppliers ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 10
B Internal and external auditor competency to CSR's IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 20
N IATF 16949:2016 7.1.5.3.2 External Laboratory - How to approve the Testing Laboratory without accreditation scope IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 2
A OHSAS 18001 external auditor finding personal interpretation? Occupational Health & Safety Management Standards 5
L External power supplies: How close does the safety report have to match the end-use application? IEC 60601 - Medical Electrical Equipment Safety Standards Series 4
D Reduction of software class based on multiple external risk controls IEC 62304 - Medical Device Software Life Cycle Processes 5
C Identifying and Controlling External Documents Document Control Systems, Procedures, Forms and Templates 3
C External Laboratories and OEM Calibration IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 0
Q AS9120B flow down to external providers: Records Retention AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 2
Casana IATF 16949 7.1.5.3.2 External Laboratory - On Site Calibration IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 8
B Using external FDA and ISO 13485 audit as internal audit Internal Auditing 6
C ISO 17025 2017, Requirement 6.6.3 - Communicate requirements to external providers ISO 17025 related Discussions 4
C Determining if Maintenance Contractor is an External Service subject to ISO 9001 Clause 8.4 ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 43
qualprod The Perfect audit? External Audit causes a significant negative impact in a company General Auditing Discussions 9
K AS9100D 8.4.1.1 external providers question - Walmart, Home Depot, our lawn care team. etc. AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 20
R Do we need to treat local law as external origin documents? ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 15
D ISO 9001:2015 Clause 8.4.3 "Information for External Providers" buying from online retailers. ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 10
M Applicability of Means of Protection, working voltage in an Automated External Defibrillator IEC 60601 - Medical Electrical Equipment Safety Standards Series 0
D Necessity of external watchdog next to internal watchdog ISO 14971 - Medical Device Risk Management 1
B How to reply NCR on ineffectiveness of corrective action during IATF external audit? This is repeated issue whereby some mistake was done. IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 7

Similar threads

Top Bottom