FAI (First Article Inspection) of Large Assemblies/Tooling after move to new building

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tcoldewey

We are in the process of moving large drill jigs/fixtures to a new building. These tools are used to drill hundreds of holes and assemble large components. They are also used as means of inspection for hole locations. They will be shot in and bought off upon completion of the move. How does one go about identifying FAI requirements for this? I can't imagine having to document every hole on a FAIR!
Thanks!
 

normzone

Trusted Information Resource
Re: FAI (First Article Inspection) of Large Assemblies/Tooling after move to new buil

Unfortunately, I am able to imagine it. Perhaps someone wiser than I will be along soon with a better solution.

What it the nature of these assemblies, anyway? What is the risk involved if something was out of whack? ("whack" being one of those technical terms describing the state of being fully functional).
 
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tcoldewey

Re: FAI (First Article Inspection) of Large Assemblies/Tooling after move to new buil

The tools are used to drill holes on large composite fairing half sections and then assemble (splice) the two halves together. These tools have been in use for a long time but the assembly operations are moving to another building. I need to define the FAI criteria for the final assembly once the tools have been relocated and optically shot in.
Thanks for your help!
 

dsanabria

Quite Involved in Discussions
Re: FAI (First Article Inspection) of Large Assemblies/Tooling after move to new buil

We are in the process of moving large drill jigs/fixtures to a new building. These tools are used to drill hundreds of holes and assemble large components. They are also used as means of inspection for hole locations. They will be shot in and bought off upon completion of the move. How does one go about identifying FAI requirements for this? I can't imagine having to document every hole on a FAIR!
Thanks!


Per AS9102b

Unless contractually required, this standard does not apply to:

 Development and prototype parts that are not considered as part of the first production run.

 Unique single run production orders, not intended for ongoing production (e.g., out-of-production spares).

 Procured standard catalog items, COTS, or deliverable software.

Hope this helps :popcorn:
 
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tcoldewey

Re: FAI (First Article Inspection) of Large Assemblies/Tooling after move to new buil

Thanks for the reply. I'm under the assumption that I need to do a FAI on the first production assy built on the tooling after it has moved.

Per section 5.3.2 you need FAI when the following occurs: a change in...location of manufacture, tooling or materials, that can potentially affect fit, form or function of the part.

There are 1000+ holes that get drilled using this tool. I am looking for some input on how to realistically perform FAI for this type of scenario...large assemblies that are drilled and assembled using drill fixtures.

Thanks again!
 

Bev D

Heretical Statistician
Leader
Super Moderator
Re: FAI (First Article Inspection) of Large Assemblies/Tooling after move to new buil

The standard is clear. you have to do all of the holes.
if you want to 'get out' of this requirement you will have to obtain permission from your SQE.

Having been a supplier I empathize with your pain of having to perform all of this work. as a customer, unless you can provide a convincing technical assessment of the severity of any subsequent failure and a proposal that gives me some assurance that you can guarantee that there will be no failures I have little sympathy for you. I don't intend to sound callous or mean to you with that statement...I intend to have you think about this situation from the users standpoint. Think about the cost and delay of a failure of these big parts could have at your customer or their final user. having been in the aerospace industry I've lived through enough standdowns and fleet groundings cause by some little dimension that somebody could have caught if they'd just done the FAI

I currently hear a lot of this 'complaining' about FAI and validations. 9 times out of 10 (wild a$$ guess) nothing bad happens. but that one time costs 10-100 times the money, time and aggravation that would have been occurred if someone had just done the work in the first place...
 
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dsanabria

Quite Involved in Discussions
Re: FAI (First Article Inspection) of Large Assemblies/Tooling after move to new buil

Per AS9102b

Unless contractually required, this standard does not apply to:

 Development and prototype parts that are not considered as part of the first production run.

 Unique single run production orders, not intended for ongoing production (e.g., out-of-production spares).

 Procured standard catalog items, COTS, or deliverable software.

Hope this helps :popcorn:

OK - I am going to say that the answer for the items above are NO!

so before we continue read the following:

http://elsmar.com/Forums/showthread.php?t=65373&highlight=9102&page=2

and the FAQ from the Supplier Handbook... (attached)

In short... the customer is the entity that dictates if you need to submit an FAI IF the conditions are met

Let me know if this helps so that we can continue to the next level but you must read the attached / linked documents.
 

Attachments

  • 3.2.2_9102B_FAQS_21_OCT_2014.pdf
    259.9 KB · Views: 178
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QA_Newbie2000

Re: FAI (First Article Inspection) of Large Assemblies/Tooling after move to new buil

From AS9102B​

4.2 First Article Inspection Planning​
a. The organization shall have a process to plan for completion of FAI or shall plan FAI activities prior to the first production​
run.​
b. FAI planning shall address the activities to be performed throughout the FAI process and identify the responsible​
organizations for those activities.
Keep in mind the intention is to determine if something happened during the move that may prevent the build of acceptable hardware​
I would recommend that somebody qualified develop an FAI plan that takes advantage of like processes. For example if you have moved a CNC drilling machine that is used to drill numerous holes in different pieces, you are not required to FAI each piece. The FAI for one of the pieces will demonstrate that the relocated machine is still capable of producing compliant hardware. This can be the basis for 'waiving' the need to FAI the rest. The program has already been validated, what you need to demonstrate is that the move hasn't done something to the machine that would prevent it from still making compliant hardware. The rational for this needs to be captured in the FAI plan though.​
 

Wes Bucey

Prophet of Profit
Re: FAI (First Article Inspection) of Large Assemblies/Tooling after move to new buil

Without boring myself (and others) with a long list of horror stories which resulted in expense and anguish when EVERYTHING was NOT minutely checked, suffice to say, "It is crucial to assure ALL equipment continues to function as before the move."

Let's be practical, however. As professional quality folk, we realize the value of the carpenter's edict, "Measure twice, cut once."

Perhaps, as part of the move, it is time to explore the process used to inspect the piece parts for accuracy to the thousands of specifications. Just HOW does the organization currently check the accuracy of its setups? I can think back to a time before most of our readers were born when my great uncle used to be able to brag about holding a tolerance of plus or minus five ten thousandths of an inch accuracy on his lathe, then his surprise 30 years later when he visited our shop and saw our CNC lathe which routinely held fifty millionths of an inch and the super micrometer which could measure those fifty millionths.

Nonetheless, the ultimate decision is the agreement (hopefully reached by reasoned compromise) with the customer(s) for each of these pieces on what will satisfy THEIR requirements for form, fit, function.

I, personally, would be exploring faster, more efficient ways to assure accuracy of thousands of dimensions to the specified tolerances. Perhaps machine vision or programmed CMMs could speed up the process and, additionally, provide more consistent results if neither of those methods is currently in use. Increased speed and accuracy would probably generate enough market advantage to offset the cost of equipment.
 
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tcoldewey

Re: FAI (First Article Inspection) of Large Assemblies/Tooling after move to new buil

Thanks everyone for the input. I really appreciate it. I have a pretty good understanding of the requirements based on AS9102. I am hoping to get some practical input based on experience performing FAI on large assemblies.

Assume that this part is a large A/C fuselage section where a tool is used to locate and drill 1000's of holes on each fuselage half and then assemble the two halves together installing 1000's of fasteners. This operation has been performed to numerous shipsets and by the same personnel for years.

The tool gets moved to another building and located and shot in (theodolite) per the tool drawing requirements. The same personnel will be performing the operations in the new building using all the same processes, etc.
Also take into consideration that per the assembly drawing, the tool is used as the sole means of inspecting all hole locations (no dimensions on the Assy b/p).

Also, the assy drawing provides allowance of up to 2nd o/s fasteners in case of holes that may have an o/s condition.

Customer only requires that the program be AS9100 certified per contract.

So...do I really have to inspect and document every hole location, diameter and fastener installation as part of an FAI?

Thanks again!!!
 
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