FAI Help - Subcontracting out all manufactured items (PCB & machined parts)

Q

Qwatcher2

#1
We are subcontracting out all manufactured items (PCB & machined parts). We will be doing only functional testing on the PCB here. We are being required to fo a FAI on the assembled/tested PCB & machined parts. What do I need to provide for the FAI? Will coc's from the subs be sufficient or do they need to provide all records?

Your help is greatly appreciated.
 
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Coury Ferguson

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#2
Re: FAI Help

We are subcontracting out all manufactured items (PCB & machined parts). We will be doing only functional testing on the PCB here. We are being required to fo a FAI on the assembled/tested PCB & machined parts. What do I need to provide for the FAI? Will coc's from the subs be sufficient or do they need to provide all records?

Your help is greatly appreciated.
Well...the way I understand what a FAI is, you would need all actual dimensional results, processes performed, material results, Outside processing and a few other things. Anything called out on the drawing will need to be recorded and actual results provided.

I don't think the CoCs would be enough, in my opinion.
 

Wes Bucey

Prophet of Profit
#3
Re: FAI Help

We are subcontracting out all manufactured items (PCB & machined parts). We will be doing only functional testing on the PCB here. We are being required to fo a FAI on the assembled/tested PCB & machined parts. What do I need to provide for the FAI? Will coc's from the subs be sufficient or do they need to provide all records?

Your help is greatly appreciated.
I understand and sympathize with your angst over FAI when doing outsourcing in an aerospace environment. (Just look at the problems Boeing is having with outsourced processes!)

I have had a number of clients go through similar anxiety. I usually counsel

  1. stay calm
  2. do personal examination or hire trusted agents to examine the processes at EACH outsourced supplier to get assurance the supplier can be trusted to deliver CONSISTENT quality the same way, every time, especially including the supplier's FAI and continuing in-process and final inspection practices.
  3. perform periodic evaluation of the suppler to assure the processes are as good as or better than the initial evaluation.
That said, a certificate of compliance is NOT the same as a full layout First Article Inspection. If you do not have personnel in your operation with the knowledge and instrumentation to perform such an FAI, you have only two choices:

  1. you must be satisfied the supplier is trustworthy and capable of performing the FAI and demand a copy together with the tagged sample which was inspected (for future reference in event of future "suspicions.")
  2. you must hire a competent third party to perform such an FAI on your behalf (you still keep the tagged sample for future reference)
Note an FAI is slightly different from "first piece" inspection, but the distinction may be lost on some folks so get a clear definition of which dimensions, attributes, and even functions shall be inspected as part of the FAI - this is part of the Contract, the Control Plan, the Inspection Plan, and, of course, Contract Review, in which you assure all parties are capable and have the capacity to carry out the terms of the Contract.
 
A

andygr

#4
First a foremost find out what is contractualy required by your customers. There is a big differance between having to do a AS9102 FAI and the clasic check the dimensions FAI.
The AS9102 is in my view preferable as you get a more detailed look at the process variable data but there will be more pushback by your suppliers and most likely some higher cost given partly to see how bad you realy want it. Not right but that is the way it is.
As Wes said the FAI is only the single snapshot in time the realy hard part of outsourcing is developing the assurance that they will perform all the time when they are not focused on the FAI. The FAI does not help in this as much as looking at the systems the shops have in place for process control and RC&CA.
:2cents:
 
Q

Qwatcher2

#5
Thank you for all your information. The customer requires a first article on the first piece but does not require it be done per AS, only as a guide. The customer SQE came and did a supplier assessment on us and also the subs before the contract was awarded and approved us and the subs, so we are confident of the level and consistency of the qulality of the subcontracted items. We are only delivering 240 item on the purchase order and we will deliver the first article as part of the purchased amount. We flowed down the customers quality requirements which also require them to provide us with a FAI report as well.
 
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