Failed Calibration - Plain Plug Gages - They grow!

Wayne

Gage Crib Worldwide
#11
Gages can grow

Hardened steel does have the propensity to grow. The growth is usually noticed in larger sizes because it is an in/in type growth. I do not know the size the gage in question, but if it is noticeably growing I expect that it is over an inch in diameter.

What happens is when the steel is hardened the modules are trapped in stasis. Slowly the molecules relax and as they relax they cause an expansion of the material. The gradual relaxation process takes about a year. The larger size the more the change is noticed. The tighter the tolerance the more the movement is noticed.

To combat this phenomenon gage makers require that their hardened steel be triple cold stabilized. The process requires the gage to be cycled three times through a freeze/thaw process. This procedure will reduce the probability of gage growth. Note the use of the word “reduce” instead of “eliminate”.
 
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Craig H.

#12
Wayne/Gage Crib said:
Hardened steel does have the propensity to grow. The growth is usually noticed in larger sizes because it is an in/in type growth. I do not know the size the gage in question, but if it is noticeably growing I expect that it is over an inch in diameter.

What happens is when the steel is hardened the modules are trapped in stasis. Slowly the molecules relax and as they relax they cause an expansion of the material. The gradual relaxation process takes about a year. The larger size the more the change is noticed. The tighter the tolerance the more the movement is noticed.

To combat this phenomenon gage makers require that their hardened steel be triple cold stabilized. The process requires the gage to be cycled three times through a freeze/thaw process. This procedure will reduce the probability of gage growth. Note the use of the word “reduce” instead of “eliminate”.

Wayne:

GREAT first post!!!! Welcome to the Cove!

Craig
 

Wes Bucey

Quite Involved in Discussions
#13
I, too, am impressed with this little bit of metallurgical legerdermain!
Who knew? (Let alone "suspected" such a thing could be?)

I gave you some "karma" for this helpful addition to our knowledge base. To see exactly how much, click on "User CP" in the navigation bar near the top of this page.

Welcome to the Cove!:bigwave: We'll be looking for more good things from you.
 
D

Dave Dunn

#14
Not something I'd expected to find in a material such as steel, but common in plastic processing and called molded-in stress. It's very common for plastic parts to slightly change in size just over time after molding, and more profoundly if the part is subjected to environments of high moisture or heat. The heat allows the molecules in plastic to relax and relieve the locked-in stress.
Very interesting to find out that steel can show similar properties.
 
#15
Wayne/Gage Crib said:
What happens is when the steel is hardened the modules are trapped in stasis. Slowly the molecules relax and as they relax they cause an expansion of the material. The gradual relaxation process takes about a year.
Ah.... Ok, I did know that this can happen and have seen examples, but nobody ever explained it to me before. Thank's Wayne.:agree1:

Furthermore: This can serve as food for thought for anyone who believes that there is no need to calibrate a tool that has not been in use. Std comment: -That is not necessary. It has not been out of the box, so what could possibly have affected it? Well, something could...

/Claes
 

Wayne

Gage Crib Worldwide
#16
Claes Gefvenberg said:
This can serve as food for thought for anyone who believes that there is no need to calibrate a tool that has not been in use. Std comment: -That is not necessary. It has not been out of the box, so what could possibly have affected it? Well, something could...

/Claes
The probability of growth is most likely noticeable:

1. If the gage is over an inch in size. Because the growth is compounded as size gets larger it will be more apparent. On smaller tools the growth will most likely be considered within the range of uncertainty or be explained away as being from different technician/equipment/laboratory variation.

2. In the first year after it has been hardened. Most of the movement is aged out of the steel after the first year. Things like temperature variation and gage use will encourage faster aging. Being unused and in a box may encourage slower aging to a small degree. Any growth detected after the first year will most likely be considered within the range of uncertainty or be explained away as being from different technician/equipment/laboratory variation.
 

Jen Kirley

Quality and Auditing Expert
Staff member
Admin
#17
I knew about expansion coefficients in high temperature environments and the subsequent need to control inspection lab environment, but I hadn't yet heard of the molecule relaxation phenomenon. Thanks for such excellent input, and welcome to The Cove! :bigwave:
 
C

cokyat

#18
I just read this posts and found out that I encountered the same situation back in 2001. Three things:
1) You gauge the Laboratory who conducted the Calibration by conducting an audit in the laboratory sight or at least talk to an official. Know whether they are practicing a valid calibration procedure (ASTM, ANSI,etc. where these standards require specific controlled calibration laboratory conditions like Temperature and Humidity) and know whether their calibration personnel have sufficient training and education.
2) Submit the gage to a different calibration agency (If resources are available otherwise, in-house observation). Compare the result to the first calibration.
3) Decide if you will replace this Agency based on the results of the two items above otherwise this event might happen again and your product quality inspection activity can be inaccurate.
 

Jim Wynne

Staff member
Admin
#19
cokyat said:
1) You gauge the Laboratory who conducted the Calibration by conducting an audit in the laboratory sight or at least talk to an official. Know whether they are practicing a valid calibration procedure (ASTM, ANSI,etc. where these standards require specific controlled calibration laboratory conditions like Temperature and Humidity) and know whether their calibration personnel have sufficient training and education.
This should be done before deciding on a calibration source, of course.
cokyat said:
2) Submit the gage to a different calibration agency (If resources are available otherwise, in-house observation). Compare the result to the first calibration.
Having two different sources check the same gage and get different results tells you only that one or both of them are wrong.
cokyat said:
3) Decide if you will replace this Agency based on the results of the two items above otherwise this event might happen again and your product quality inspection activity can be inaccurate.
Wayne provided what appears to be the most likely explanation; your first two items, while providing additional evidence, likely won't provide enough to make a decision on sourcing.
 

Chitchat

Registered Visitor
#20
Re: Gages can grow

Hardened steel does have the propensity to grow. The growth is usually noticed in larger sizes because it is an in/in type growth. I do not know the size the gage in question, but if it is noticeably growing I expect that it is over an inch in diameter.

What happens is when the steel is hardened the modules are trapped in stasis. Slowly the molecules relax and as they relax they cause an expansion of the material. The gradual relaxation process takes about a year. The larger size the more the change is noticed. The tighter the tolerance the more the movement is noticed.

To combat this phenomenon gage makers require that their hardened steel be triple cold stabilized. The process requires the gage to be cycled three times through a freeze/thaw process. This procedure will reduce the probability of gage growth. Note the use of the word “reduce” instead of “eliminate”.
Hi Wayne,

Does the same princilple hold true for smaller size gages? I have a number of gage sets that have failed calibration where the gages have grown in size. For example: Deltronic imperial Class X+. Initial calibration was performed in 2007, front and back, subsequent calibrations performed at three positions, see attached data. These pins are typically used for measure the internal diameter of extruded material.

Thanks for your help!
 

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