Fault Tree Analysis (FTA) - Application - Preventive, Corrective or Risk Analysis?

I

Iznul - 2010

#1
#1
Hi Cove Members! :bigwave:

I have difficulties to understand the application for the FTA, is it a preventive or corrective or more to risk analysis? As my search in the web, there's a two type of FTA, one is quite similar to C & E diagram, and one with a probability calculations.

Can anyone help to explain to me?

Thanks in advance!
 
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T

temujin

#2
#2
Re: Fault Tree Analysis (FTA) - Application

Hi and Welcome to the Cove,



Iznul said:
...application for the FTA, is it a preventive or corrective or more to risk analysis
Click to expand...
Not really a difference here, Corrective/preventive Action is all about analyzing and managing Risks.

Could you explain a little bit more what you need to do?
What´s an C & E diagram?

regards
t.
 
U

Umang Vidyarthi

#3
#3
Re: Fault Tree Analysis (FTA) - Application

Iznul said:
Hi Cove Members! :bigwave:

I have difficulties to understand the application for the FTA, is it a preventive or corrective or more to risk analysis? As my search in the web, there's a two type of FTA, one is quite similar to C & E diagram, and one with a probability calculations.

Can anyone help to explain to me?

Thanks in advance!
Click to expand...
Hello Inzul, welcome to the cove. :bigwave:

Can you be a bit more specific as to where you wish to use FTA? Also what exactly is a 'C & E diagram'? Are you refering to 'cause & effect'(fishbone) diagrams? If yes, then it is different from FTA, which is Top to down, having 'AND' 'OR' gates to describe relationship between 'input' & 'output' of events in a fault tree.

The fault tree analysis was developed by the Bell Telephone Lab, for US air force, in1962; and it is mainly used in Risk & Safety analysis.

You will find plenty of free material here : http://www.fault-tree.net/

Looking forward to hear more from you.

Umang :D
 
Last edited by a moderator:
I

Iznul - 2010

#4
#4
Re: Fault Tree Analysis (FTA) - Application

Hi Temijin & Umag,

Thanks for your reply!:thanx:

FYI, C & E is a Cause & Effect diagram, Basicly i just need to know what is the FTA used for? is it for Risk analysis before problem happens / or to be used after problem occured?

My problem here is that my manager ask me to solve any problem arise in future related to Rejection or Incident by using the FTA, but what i not so sure is that, is there any specific type of problem to use the FTA? :frust: or we just can use it as a problem solving tools?

Regards
 
T

temujin

#5
#5
Re: Fault Tree Analysis (FTA) - Application

Iznul said:
... or we just can use it as a problem solving tools?
Regards
Click to expand...
It´s definitely "just" a tool. You can use it for locating possible hazards and associated risks. Like with any other tool you cannot expect to solve any future problem...

Still I do not quite understand what you would like to achieve with the analysis, and what your manager wants you to do.

Try and elaborate a little and I´m sure there are people that can guide you...

regards
t.
 
Miner

Miner

Forum Moderator
Staff member
Admin
#6
#6
Re: Fault Tree Analysis (FTA) - Application

A Fault Tree Analysis is a highly focused look at a specific defect. One defect = one FTA. While it would make a good preventative tool, it is only practical for a small number of defects. It would make a good follow up to a Design FMEA to look at failure modes with a high Severity or Sev x Occ rating. This is where the probability version would be useful.

Most of the time an FTA is done after a serious failure mode has occurred. This would ensure that, in addition to the root cause of the failure, you could address other potential causes for the same failure.
 
Last edited:
U

Umang Vidyarthi

#7
#7
Re: Fault Tree Analysis (FTA) - Application

Iznul said:
Hi Temijin & Umag,

Thanks for your reply!:thanx:

FYI, C & E is a Cause & Effect diagram, Basicly i just need to know what is the FTA used for? is it for Risk analysis before problem happens / or to be used after problem occured?

My problem here is that my manager ask me to solve any problem arise in future related to Rejection or Incident by using the FTA, but what i not so sure is that, is there any specific type of problem to use the FTA? :frust: or we just can use it as a problem solving tools?

Regards
Click to expand...
As I have already stated,FTA is remarkably different from cause & effect diagrams.

2. FTA is being used before occurrence of a problem.Wikipedia definition is : "Fault tree analysis (FTA) is a failure analysis in which an undesired state of a system is analyzed using boolean logic to combine a series of lower-level events. This analysis method is mainly used in the field of safety engineering to quantitatively determine the probability of a safety hazard."

You must acclimatise yourself with the tool you wish to use. There are numerous sites to refer (one I have suggested in my post).Besides FTA needs in depth knowledge of the system one is going to use it for.

3. Remember, 'ANY TOOL' is required to be used judiciously, and not just for the heck of it. You can not use a sword in stead of a needle! Though both are equally good in their respective usage.

Your Manager's view to use FTA for every problem is his misguided notion.It reminds me of famous Maslow's law :"If the only tool you have is a hammer, then every problem looks like a nail"

Instead of entering into an argument with him, you may politely ask him to show you the way.

Hope this helps.

Umang :D
 
H

Helmut Jilling

Auditor / Consultant
#8
#8
Re: Fault Tree Analysis (FTA) - Application

Iznul said:
...
My problem here is that my manager ask me to solve any problem arise in future related to Rejection or Incident by using the FTA, but what i not so sure is that, is there any specific type of problem to use the FTA? :frust: or we just can use it as a problem solving tools?

Regards
Click to expand...

It is a tool to help analyze actual or potential root causes, but it is not suitable to be used "all the time."

The two most common tools to use all the time are 5-Whys and Is-Is Not. These two will work 90% of the time. The other 10% of problems require more complex analysis, such as FTA, Fishbone, DoE, SPC, etc.


5-Whys is a process of "peeling the problem layer by layer. Why did this occur. And, why did that occur, and so on, until you finally discover the end root cause.

Sometimes, 5-Whys won't work, because you can't answer "Why." Then, try the opposite. Try Is-Is Not. Ask, what is not part of the problem, and eliminate that from the group. It is a process of elimination.

I find these two are easy for people to learn and apply, and these two will work 90% of the time.
 
I

Iznul - 2010

#9
#9
Re: Fault Tree Analysis (FTA) - Application

Hi all ! :yes:


Thanks for all your inputs. Its really a help. :agree1:

btw, is there any chance that any of you can share with me the sample of the actual analysis using FTA?

Regards,
 
R

reigelser

#10
#10
Honda FTA - does anyone have experience with it?

Hi everybody,

haven't been here in a while since I moved from the US back to the homeland in Europe. Now I am working in the automotive industry but not in a direct quality function (however quality is evreybodies responsibility!).
My team mate and qualityplanner is supposed to provide a FTA for Honda for a new product.

Does anyone have experience with the FTA for Honda? Is there anything special about it? Does anyone have a sample FTA for Honda?

Thanks for your help.

Cheers

Joachim
 
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