Finding the Root Cause - Which technique is better?

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AnaMariaVR2

Trusted Information Resource
#43
Mindmapping works here as well as using cause mapping to capture the complete investigation. When times allows, I like that approach too but will try to complement it w/ other quality tools discussed here like 5W & fishbone diagram.

Excel works great to capture root cause investigations but if you prefer, white board or even Post-it notes, go crazy on them!:biglaugh:

In an ideal state, the organization meets a set goals. But due to deviation(s), the organizational goals are impacted. Sometimes people confuse problems with causes during an investigation making it hard to place it in the right place in the diagram. Asking as well, what, how, why, where and when the goal(s) were impacted will certainly bring a more focused & clear set of data during the RCA investigation.
:2cents:
 
C

Chance

#46
can you provide an example we can work with? that will help us focus our response.
Thank you in advance.

Here is the situation:
Failure: no product available to use
Contributing factors:
1. contamination during production
2. Not done in a right way
3. Done in a wrong time
4. contamination during harvest
5. Poor production management

How to narrow it down? If I start asking why to every single one of them, that's a whole lot of different scenarios why the contributing factor happens.

Appreciate everybody's input.
 

Bev D

Heretical Statistician
Staff member
Super Moderator
#47
Thank you in advance.

Here is the situation:
Failure: no product available to use
Contributing factors:
1. contamination during production
2. Not done in a right way
3. Done in a wrong time
4. contamination during harvest
5. Poor production management

How to narrow it down? If I start asking why to every single one of them, that's a whole lot of different scenarios why the contributing factor happens.

Appreciate everybody's input.
Chance - I think the first point is that 5 Whys is a 'actual situation' investigative framework. it is not a brainstorming method.

That said, your possible categories are fairly well thought out. I would propose they could benefit from some additional specificity (and some of my polishing below is simple language, some not)

'poor production management' is far too vague and all encompassing as it could incoporate all of the previously listed categories.
contamination during production is far too specific as it could be encompassed by 'Not done in a right way'

How about this (and I won't exactly right because i dont' know enough about your product or processes)

draw out your process in large groupings. think of as inputs - process - output.

final product can only be unavailable for a very few reasons:

Cycle time too long (spent too long in process)
Product failed - scrap (exited process in an unacceptable way. reworked will show up in 'cycle time too long')
Raw material not available. (didn't enter the process)

Now to answer these questions you will have to go get facts and data.
once you know which one has the largest effect you can ask the next level of "Why" for that category. If each of the categories has a substantial effect you must split your 5Why off into seperate investigations...
 
C

Chance

#48
Chance - I think the first point is that 5 Whys is a 'actual situation' investigative framework. it is not a brainstorming method. <snip>
Hi Bev,

Thanks for your input. After reading your reply I realized that all 5 situations will be narrowed down into one category - not done the right way. Dont' you think?:agree:

Thanks.
 

Bev D

Heretical Statistician
Staff member
Super Moderator
#49
Hi Bev,

Thanks for your input. After reading your reply I realized that all 5 situations will be narrowed down into one category - not done the right way. Dont' you think?:agree:

Thanks.
well probably but 'not done the right way' is not specific enough to be actionable. how does that categorization help you?

what wasn't done the right way?
which thing that wasn't done the right way had the largest effect on availability?
what is the right way?
 

Marc

Hunkered Down for the Duration
Staff member
Admin
#50
For some reason page 7 in this thread is not showing for me. I am trying to fix the problem.

Appears OK now. Sorry for the interruption.
 
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